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June 15, 2004
Room 302 Capitol Building
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Senator John Hanes, Chairman
Representative Randall Luthi, Chairman
Senator Jayne Mockler
Senator Bob Peck
Representative Pete Illoway
Representative Wayne Reese
Dave Gruver, Assistant Director
Don Richards, Senior Research Analyst
Please refer to
Appendix 1 to review the Committee Sign-in Sheet
for a list of other individuals who attended the meeting.
Cochairman Luthi called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m. Please refer to Appendix 2 to review the Committee Meeting Agenda.
Chris Boswell, the Governor's chief of staff addressed the Committee. The Governor regretted not being able to attend but was out of state. The Governor was not proposing any changes in the statutes at this time, but was not necessarily speaking in opposition to potential changes. Specifically the Governor suggested his review of budgets is appropriate and cautioned the Committee to move carefully in changing the budget process from gubernatorial review of the elected officials' budgets. Regarding board staffing, the Governor's position was that a good management practice was for a CEO to hire and fire personnel. He noted that some of the commissions meet quarterly and with that schedule if a decision is not made at a meeting, the decision can turn into a six month process. The Board of Land Commissioners and the Office of State Lands and Investments are working well in the Governor's view. The Sate Loan and Investment Board is working but needs additional funding for some programs. The State Building Commission issues are being addressed and with additional staff authorized in the last session statutory duties are expected to be completed.
The Committee discussed the process for personnel hiring and Mr. Boswell stated that the process is informal, with the Governor consulting other elected officials on the boards or with the nominee contacting the elected officials.
Secretary of State Joe Meyer addressed the Committee. He stated that elected officials serve a role of discretionary oversight of the bureaucracy and also receive direct public comment. The failings of the current system is a lack of interface between the boards the elected officials serve on and the Legislature. What the Legislature should do is determine what it wants the five elected officials to accomplish and then adequately staff and fund those functions.
In response to Committee questions, Secretary Meyer stated that the Board of Land Commissioners, Office of State Lands and Investments and the State Loan and Investment Board are working well. The State Building Commission has been problematic in the past, but with additional staffing authorized and now in place, he was willing to wait and see if the problems of the past will be resolved.
State Auditor Max Maxfield next addressed the Committee. He noted corporations in the private sector do have boards of directors and thus took some exception to the suggestion of complete CEO hiring and firing authority. He also urged the Committee to look beyond immediate staffing issues and look to see if systemic changes are needed. He further indicated that the problem in the recent hiring of a facilities manager was not with the person hired, but that the process had been agreed to and then deviated from by the Governor; the hiring was done on a Monday while an executive session to discuss the hiring had previously been scheduled for the following Wednesday.
His concerns systemically were to address how the elected officials could carry out their constitutional and statutory duties without the Governor being able to trump the execution of those jobs. In his view, changing this problem seemed to be best addressed between administrations and perhaps with a number of the elected officials being term limited, with making any changes effective in 2007, after the current terms have expired. There are also statutory conflicts in the duties of the elected officials that Deputy Auditor Gary Stephenson has identified.
In response to Committee questions as to whether the statutory duties of the Auditor should be changed, Mr. Maxfield suggested that the name of the office should be changed because it no longer does audits. Otherwise he felt the five elected officials duties are well served by being on the commissions currently required.
In reply to a Committee member suggestion that there are duplications in duties such as the Business Council and the State Loan and Investment Board (SLIB) both making loans to local governments, the State Auditor, asserted that the Business Council's function is infrastructure for economic development and that is funneled through the SLIB. He suggested that the Business Council might not wish to take on the additional loans to local governments which are within the purview of the SLIB statutes.
Discussion turned to term limits issue and whether that affected the elected officials decisions. The Auditor noted that he did not agree with the concept of term limits but he had no plans to challenge the law.
When asked for specific recommendations, Mr. Maxfield suggested too much power is vested in the Attorney General regarding contract approval and procurement. He believed the elected officials should go through the procurement process, but the contract approval requirement can effectively table contracts. The Auditor stated that despite last session's legislation, Attorney General approval of contracts is still in effect and that a problem still exists as far as he is concerned.
State Treasurer Lummis addressed the Committee. She provided written material presenting her initial thoughts and recommendations on the issues. (Appendix 3). An additional recommendation not appearing in the written materials was to consider structuring the Board of Land Commissioners' duties in a manner to be performed in a corporate trust type setting with funding from the income generated by the trust assets. Those functions should then be separate from the other duties of the Office of State Lands and Investments.
Regarding the Attorney General's role, in response to Committee questions, the Treasurer stated that it would be preferable to the current situation if the Attorney General's advice to the elected officials were to be confidential between that official and the Attorney General. She noted that her office is interviewing candidates for a two year contract in house counsel position authorized by the Legislature in the last session. That should be a large step in the right direction. As to whether raising the amount of contracts subject to review by the Attorney General would be beneficial, the Treasurer noted that it could be helpful.
The Committee then discussed the hiring of legal counsel and reviewed the authority granted in last session's senate file 51 and the budget bill.
Superintendent Trent Blankenship addressed the Committee. He thanked the Legislature for legislation regarding the legal services provided the elected officials. He supported the recommendation of the Treasurer of a Management Audit review of the State Building Commission. Superintendent Blankenship provided written recommendations for the Committee's consideration. (Appendix 4). He suggested the legislature review the intended functions of each of the boards created and then examine whether the composition of the board is reflective of the assigned functions. He specifically suggested reviewing the functions of the State Board of Education. He also noted the composition and duties of the State School Facilities Commission should be reviewed; the State Superintendent is a member of that Commission, while at the same time he appoints other members and yet other members are appointed by the Governor. The composition of the board and staffing make attending meetings difficult for him. The Superintendent suggested that he should be given more input in preparing the agenda and suggested that he should be able to send a designee to the meetings of that Commission.
Regarding the State Building Commission, the Superintendent noted that the Commission had a very difficult time in making recommendations because there is a lack of data regarding space and other state building needs. The Commission is in need of a comprehensive understanding of those needs. He reiterated his support for a Management Audit review of that Commission.
Regarding legal representation, the Superintendent thanked the Legislature for the passage of Senate File 51. Still there is a problem with lack of attorney client privilege in the advice given by that office to the Superintendent.
Elected Official's budgets should not be required to be submitted to the Governor in his view. That prevents the elected official from carrying out the functions of his office.
He suggested that the State Board of Education duties and authorities conflict with the duties and authorities of the State Superintendent. Further if the State Superintendent were allowed to appoint the State Board of Education that could be beneficial. He also asked for additional oversight of the B11 process.
Cochairman Luthi invited all the elected officials to submit any additional suggestions for changes they felt appropriate. State Auditor Maxfield suggested those elected officials with suggestions, including himself, would consolidate their further recommendations to the Committee.
The Committee adjourned for lunch at 1:00 p.m. and reconvened at 2:00 p.m.
Lynn Boomgaarden, Director of the Office of State Lands and Investments, addressed the Committee. She described the Office functions and distinguished between the trust functions and other duties of the Office. While the state forester is appointed and dismissed by the board as a whole, all other administrators of the Office are appointed by the Director, thus there is some anomaly between those appointments.
She testified as a staff person serving a board comprised of the elected officials, that for those trust duties, the trust responsibilities are paramount and there is no loyalty problem in her view on those matters. Appointment by the entire board could politicize those issues. In reply to Committee questions as to whether separating the duties of the Office by trust versus none trust duties, could result in duplication, Ms. Boomgaarden agreed.
Representative Illoway asked for a flow chart of the Office's trust versus non-trust duties.
Regarding the inventory of state lands, Ms. Boomgaarden stated that the Office has shifted to an automated data management system to integrate with the Office's hard copy of state land documents. The Office can identify all state lands owned by hard copy, but it will take about two years to be completely automated.
The Committee discussed the purchase of specific parcels of land. Included in that discussion were items such as how the Board of Land Commissioners acted on particular purchases. Ms. Boomgaarden stated that there was no formal motion regarding one of the possible transactions being discussed and that all five members actually supported the purchase, but three board members took a more active role in the purchase. Committee members noted that with a formal action of the board, more weight is accorded with the legislature.
Ms. Boomgaarden testified that the Board of Land Commissioners actually meets every other month, not quarterly. She noted that often times formal steps in the form of a resolution of the board are taken.
Ms. Boomgaarden testified regarding how her role would change if she were hired by the entire board. As a trust function, staff has told her that political issues have in the past caused some interference with what staff saw as carrying out trust obligations. Without the trust duties placing sideboards on some discretionary actions, her concern is that politicizing could affect those actions involving nontrust duties. On a personal note she stated that when considering her current position she recognized that she was a political appointee, but probably would not have accepted the position if she were hired by the entire board.
Senator Mockler suggested that for the Director of the Office, the Governor could nominate, the Board confirm, the Governor then appoint and the Senate confirm. Ms. Boomgaarden suggested the instability comes from the firing lying with the Board; thus with the Governor retaining that discretion her concern would be alleviated. Ms. Boomgaarden suggested that the current appointment form works, although she is not opposed to the suggested change by Senator Mockler. As far as splitting trust and nontrust duties, that will go hand and hand with legislation which would permit self funding for the trust obligations. Without that funding she would not advocate statutory changes.
Senator Hanes asked for a memorandum of Ms. Boomgaarden's thoughts and suggested statutory changes. She agreed to do so after communicating with the Board.
The Treasurer testified that the reason the Board of Land Commissioners did not take formal action to recommend the purchase being discussed was that the Board was acting only as an advocate for the purchase generally, not as the Board of Land Commissioners since the recommendation was to purchase with general funds. General funds were recommended rather than trust funds because the lands could not produce sufficient income to justify expenditure of trust funds.
Marguerite Herman, League of Women Voters, addressed the Committee. She urged the Committee not to create a situation in which the Director of the Office of State Lands could not function in a manner consistent with trust duties imposed on the trust lands.
Representative Illoway moved the Committee ask for recommendations and written comments from those appearing sometime around the first of July. The Committee could consider those recommendations at its next meeting. The motion was seconded by Senator Mockler and amended by agreement to July 9. The motion passed.
The Committee asked that the last Management Audit Committee review of the State Building Commission be provided.
The Committee set its next meeting for August 19th in Cheyenne. The Committee members were urged to have any draft legislation prepared by that meeting if possible.
The Committee adjourned at 3:15 p.m.
There being no further business, Cochairman Luthi adjourned the meeting at 3:15 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Randall Luthi, Cochairman