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Tuesday, September 6, 2005
Wyoming Game & Fish Dept. Regional Offices
3030 Energy Lane
Casper, Wyoming
Senator Bruce Burns, Cochairman
Representative Jim Slater, Cochairman
Senator Stan Cooper
Senator Mike Massie
Representative Kathy Davison
Representative Bill Thompson
Roger Sebesta
Janet Hartford
Terry Pollard
Ken Raymond
Jay Lawson
Lynda Cook, Staff
Attorney
Please refer to
Appendix 1 to review the Committee Sign-in Sheet
for a list of other individuals who attended the meeting.
Chairman Burns called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m. The following sections summarize the Committee proceedings by topic. Please refer to Appendix 2 to review the Committee Meeting Agenda.
The task force voted to approve the minutes of the last meeting, July 13, 2005, without amendment.
At the last meeting, the task force asked Jay Lawson to conduct a study of hunter attitudes regarding the proposal to create a closed pool of licenses available only to non resident hunters who hire an outfitter. A previous poll had been done in 1989 with the question "Should outfitters be guaranteed licenses?". At that time 59% of non-residents and 76% of residents opposed the concept.
The survey taken for this task force was more narrowly tailored to the proposal brought by the Wyoming Outfitters and Guides Association at the last meeting. That proposal was to increase the number of non resident elk licenses available in the special early drawing to 50% of the total available non resident elk licenses. Of that 50%, 80% would be available only to non resident hunters who hire an outfitter to guide the hunt. Therefore the total breakdown would be: 10% for a special early drawing for non outfitted non residents, 40% for a special early drawing for outfitted non residents, and the remaining 50% for the regular drawing for non residents.
The survey was developed by Responsive Management, a third party professional polling company. Responsive Management developed the questions and polled a random sample of resident and non resident elk license holders in August, 2005. The results of the survey are attached as Appendix 3. Opposition exceeded support for the proposal in both residents and non residents, although residents were more strongly opposed. Respondents who supported the proposal most commonly indicated they supported it because it would help the outfitting industry. Respondents who opposed the proposal most commonly indicated that they opposed it because all non residents should have an equal opportunity to purchase a license, they perceived it as unfair to non resident hunters, and they perceived that it reduced the number of licenses available to non outfitted hunters.
The task force took testimony from Jim Allen and Marian Schulz of the Wyoming Outfitters and Guides Association (WYOGA). Mr. Allen stated that the survey shows that people either do not understand or do not care about the economic development that a closed pool would support. He listed the affects the outfitting industry has on the economy and argued that no other business is regulated in such a way that subjects their ability to attract customers to a random drawing.
Terry Pollard questioned Mr. Lawson about how survey respondents were sampled. Mr. Lawson indicated that they survey used a random sample of persons who bought an elk license in 2005. Mr. Pollard stated that he would have liked to see specific targeting of outfitted hunters answering the survey. Mr. Lawson said that such targeting would not be a random sampling.
Mark Winland, Executive Director of the Wyoming Wildlife Federation testified in opposition of the proposal. The WWF board was unanimous in its opposition. They felt the proposal was discriminatory against equal access, it treated wildlife like a commodity allowing the market to regulate rather than biologists and it created a slippery slope where licenses would eventually be granted to various special interest groups. Finally, although the proposal would not affect the availability of resident elk licenses, it would affect residents by making it more difficult for non resident relatives of residents who do not need or want the services of outfitters to receive a license. When asked whether Mr. Winland had received any response to his editorial in the newspaper, Mr. Winland stated that he received many responses, unanimously in opposition to the proposal and they have seen an increase in new membership in their organization.
Sam Coutts, outfitter and WYOGA member testified in support of the proposal. He stated that the WYOGA had not done a good job informing the public about the need for the closed pool and the nature of the pool. He stated that the task force has a good opportunity at this time to send a message to the public that the outfitting industry is important to the state.
Kim Floyd, AFL/CIO lobbyist, testified in opposition to the bill. He stated that organized labor has a long history of interest in wildlife legislation and their membership is very active in hunting and fishing. Mr. Floyd testified that the state board of the AFL/CIO passed a resolution opposing any set aside of licenses for special interests. While they hold the industry in high regard, they believe the state does not owe the industry a living. He added that the proposal would not increase economic development because it merely diverts business from local hotels and restaurants to the outfitting camps.
Sy Gilliland, WYOGA, testified that the survey was faulty because it surveyed only people who bought elk licenses. He stated that that is less than 10% of the population and did not take into account the non hunting population that might support the economic development of the industry inherent in the proposal. He was pleased to hear that 25% of the residents surveyed supported the proposal. Mr. Gilliland then testified how his outfitting business supports many other areas of the economy from banks and printing companies, to car repairs and dealerships, to taxidermists and meat processors. He stated that outfitters are the promotional arm of the game and fish department and were de facto game wardens.
Dick Sadler, former state representative, testified in opposition to the proposal. He provided the task force with a history of the attempts to create set aside licenses for the outfitting industry. He handed out a letter from Terry Pollard to Governor Geringer asking for set aside licenses, and the response from the governor stating that the "public does not support license allocation for either landowners or outfitters." (Appendix 4). He also provided the task force with a copy of a 1988 study of the Economic Contributions of Outfitted and Non-Outfitted Nonresident Elk Hunters in Wyoming. (Appendix 5). The study found that outfitted hunters spent less money in Wyoming per harvested elk than non outfitted hunters. This was the result of a higher success rate in hunting, leading to less time in the field and less money spent per animal harvested. Mr. Sadler testified that outfitters have enough stability right now as evidenced by the amount of money they spend on private land leases. He asserted that if outfitters had a guaranteed income they would spend even more money on private land leases, thereby decreasing the opportunities for non outfitted resident hunters.
Bob Wharff, Executive Director, Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife testified that his organization supports stabilization of the outfitting industry. While they do not support set asides, he does not see this proposal as a set aside because the licenses would not be given to individual outfitters to sell. He reiterated that his organization does not have a direct stake in this proposal.
Terry Pollard moved that the committee recommend the bill (Appendix 6) creating a closed pool of licenses for outfitted non resident elk hunters to the Joint Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resources Interim Committee. The motion failed for lack of a second.
The proposal gave rise to several letters which were forwarded to the task force before the meeting and are attached hereto. (Appendix 7).
Legislative Service office staff explained the provisions in the bill. (Appendix 8) The bill was drafted at the request of Co-chairman Burns to:
1. Provide term limits on board of outfitters members;
2. Clarify the board's authority to cite unlicensed outfitters and guides;
3. Allow board investigators to enter private property without permission;
4. Increase penalties for second and subsequent violations of the outfitting laws;
5. Provide for forfeiture of equipment used when violating the outfitting laws; and
6. Prohibit leasing of lands for hunting to unlicensed outfitters.
The task force took testimony from the public in support of the increased regulation of unlicensed outfitters.
The Committee recessed at 12:00 am for lunch and was called back to order at 1:00 pm.
The following amendments were proposed and unanimously approved:
Page 2-line 14 Delete "one (1)" insert "two (2) consecutive".
Page 2-line 23 Delete all new language, reinsert all stricken language.
Page 3-line 2 Delete "professional" insert "unlicensed".
Page 3-lines 9 through 13 Reinsert all stricken language.
Page 4-line 1 Delete "a violation" insert "outfitting or guiding without a license,".
Page 4-line 2 Delete line through "act,".
Page 4-line 5 Delete "ten (10)" insert "two (2)".
Page 4-line 7 After "including" insert ", but not limited to,"; after "firearm," insert "livestock and tack,".
Page 4-line 10 Delete "a violation of" insert "outfitting or guiding without a license".
Page 4-line 11 Delete line through "act".
Page 5-line 20 Delete "No term or portion".
Page 5-lines 21 through 23 Delete entirely.
Sy Gilliland, WYOGA, and Nancy Berry and Jane Flagg of the Board of Outfitters each testified that the Board and WOGA had met to come to consensus on other issues of concern. The stakeholders provided memos outlining the statutory areas that needed further revision. (Appendicies 9 and 10). Senator Massie clarified that the WOGA only represents approximately 10% of the licensed outfitters and guides in the state so the consensus was not necessarily supported by the entire industry. Senator Burns suggested that the stakeholders bring draft amendments to the next meeting of the Joint Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resources Interim Committee because without specific language the Task Force could not address them at this meeting. The committee considered the proposals suggested by the stakeholders and agreed to recommend support of the concepts in the final task force report. The concepts all essentially propose clarifying the definition of "outfitter" to better police the unlicensed outfitters in the state.
The task force instructed Legislative Service Office staff to prepare a report and recommendations for submission to Joint Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resources Interim Committee in October.
There being no further business, Chairman Burns adjourned the meeting at 3:00pm.
Respectfully submitted,
Bruce Burns, Chairman