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July 20, 2005
University of Wyoming Extension Office
Casper, Wyoming
Representative Pat Childers, Chairman
Senator Mike Massie
Senator Michael Von Flatern
Representative Wayne Reese
Representative Jerry Iekel
Lynda Cook, Staff Attorney
Please refer to
Appendix 1 to review the Subcommittee Sign-in Sheet
for a list of other individuals who attended the meeting.
Chairman Pat Childers called the meeting to order at 8:30 am. The following sections summarize the Committee proceedings by topic. Please refer to Appendix 2 to review the Committee Meeting Agenda.
Eric Nelson, Wyoming Downs, reported on the horse racing segment of the gaming industry in Wyoming. He also gave an update on the issue of instant gaming machines which were the subject of the bill which was vetoed by the governor last session. Wyoming Downs still believes the terminals are legal even without passage of the bill last session so they filed suit. On July 7, 2005 the judge ruled that the machines were in fact unlawful gambling devices prohibited by law. Mr. Nelson provided the committee with copies of the briefs filed and the decision in that case. (Appendix 3). They plan to appeal the decision to the Wyoming Supreme Court in the near future. In the meantime, they would like the committee to support bills this session that would authorize the use of the instant gaming terminals, one that would require background checks for all gaming facilities, and one that would increase the take out percentage allowed for simulcast races. They would support a bill that would allow the instant racing machines and would limit the number of machines to thirty per off track betting facility. Because there is only one facility per county, and only if the county elects to allow it, there would be no more than thirty machines per county.
Mr. Nelson also suggested that there is enough money in horse racing to support the creation of a gaming commission which would oversee not only horse racing, but also all types of legal gaming in the state.
Senator Bruce Burns testified that he would like to see a gaming commission established. He thinks the pari-mutuel commission should remain intact but could be overseen by the gaming commission. The authority of the commission should be limited with as much detail as possible set forth in statute. Finally, he pointed out that the political reality regarding e-bingo and instant racing is that the legislature is clearly against those items. He does not see any attitudes changing this year.
Steve Cranfill, Dreamgames and Wyoming Association of Non-Profit Associations, provided the committee with some suggested language that would allow simple electronic daubers to be used at bingo parlors. (Appendix 4). Under his suggested language, bingo would be limited to non-profit associations, as it is now, but they would be limited to paying no more than 40% of the profits to vendors for use of electronic dauber machines. Computers would have to look like bingo cards and not slot machines, and they would have to be part of a stand alone system on the premises that was not networked with outside machines.
Virginia Shoffstall, Chairman of the Pari-mutuel Commission testified that she would like to see a gaming commission that could crack down on illegal gaming, regardless of whether the committee elects to broaden gaming in the state. However, the pari-mutuel commission should remain separate because it regulates horse racing. Finally, any new gaming commission should have the authority to support addiction counseling.
Whitey Kaul and Carl Polsen, Wyoming All Race Horse Racing Association, reminded the committee of a study that was done by the American Horse Racing Association that found the impact of horse racing on the Wyoming economy to be about $289 million per year. The income to the horse owners is not great, in fact purses are the lowest in the region. (Appendix 5). They testified that allowing the tracks to have instant racing terminals would increase the profits and therefore increase the purses available to horse owners.
Father Dave Courter, Manager of Grandma's Pickle Parlor testified that he is concerned about allowing horse tracks to have instant racing machines without allowing e-bingo is sacrificing non-profits income potential for the benefit of horse racing. He stated that the potential customers are the same and that if they cannot use e-bingo machines in bingo halls, they will go to the race track and use instant racing machines instead. He thinks e-bingo should be allowed and regulated because time is marching on.
Roxana Taylor, Lions Club of Casper, testified that her non-profit went from $50,000 in community donations to $2,000 after e-bingo was outlawed. She stated that traditional bingo is too expensive to run. There is a great deal of waste paper involved, and the man hours are expensive. A computer can check cards more accurately and avoid waste. She also suggested that paying an out of state vendor to supply a bingo hall with e-bingo machines was no different then paying an out of state vendor to supply the paper cards used in traditional bingo. Finally, she testified that she was not opposed to legislation allowing only e-bingo machines that look like bingo cards instead of slot machines.
Tom Montoya, Chief law enforcement officer for the Liquor division handed out copies of Wyoming's gambling laws. (Appendix 6). He stated that his law enforcement officers have found many gambling machines in their work, but enforcement of the gambling laws is left to the counties. The liquor division can only suspend or revoke liquor licenses for violations of statute. He asked that the statutes get clarified as to what is allowed and what isn't, and he wanted to ensure that any changes be reflected in Title 12 as well. When asked exactly what needed to be clarified, Mr. Montoya offered to meet with the county attorneys to find out exactly why they are unwilling to prosecute under the current laws.
Mike Moser, Wyoming State Liquor Association, testified that the Attorney General's opinion about card games in bars has left his clients in fear of losing their liquor licenses if customers start a friendly game in their establishments. The opinion that selling food and drink to persons playing game constitutes indirect profit, and therefore professional gambling, is the biggest problem. Professional gambling needs to be clarified to allow for these spontaneous games.
The committee took testimony from the following people who all stated that gaming should be allowed in Wyoming, that Wyoming is losing money to other states that do allow gaming, and that gaming should be regulated: Sue Farmer, Richard Emond, David Unison, Barbara Porter, John English, Russell Jackson, Carol Long, Robert Eshelman and Lois Evanson.
Pat Heimbuch testified that traditional bingo is very expensive to run and she provided the committee with a report explaining the terms that her non-profit has used for their bingo system. (Appendix 7). Tammy Dixon also testified to the mistakes that can be made through human error when computers are not allowed to aid in bingo games.
David Harris testified regarding poker tournaments. He runs dart and pool tournaments and he does not see a distinction. His opinion is that poker is a game of skill. He answered questions from the committee regarding the distribution of profits from those tournaments – all of the entry fees are awarded as prizes.
Bob Tanner testified in opposition to legalizing any form of gambling in Wyoming. He believes the costs associated with gambling outweigh the lost dollars for the state. David Baskett submitted written testimony opposing gambling in general as well. (Appendix 8).
Public comment was closed at 10:45 am.
The committee discussed what kinds of gaming should be allowed in Wyoming. The committee was in agreement that poker tournaments should be allowed in bars and restaurants. The committee also agreed that traditional bingo, perhaps with electronic daubers, and pull tabs should continue to be allowed by non-profit entities. Calcutta events should remain as they are currently in statutes. Football pools and shake a day games at bars and restaurants should also continue to be allowed, although it is unclear whether they are currently legal. The committee agreed that a statutory change clarifying that indirect profits such as serving food to players does not qualify as professional gambling would solve this ambiguity.
The committee discussed electronic bingo. A straw poll taken at the full committee meeting in June indicated that the committee did not want to bring a bill allowing e-bingo. However, Senator Van Flatern stated that a bill that allowed for electronic daubers would probably be seen differently.
The committee agreed to bring a draft bill to the full committee that would allow instant racing machines for off track betting facilities. The bill would be specific about the limited number of machines that would be allowed at any one facility. In addition, the bill would clarify the definition of a terminal.
The committee supported bringing a clear definition of non-profits to the standing committee for their consideration. Bingo should continue to be limited to non-profit entities. Poker tournaments and Monte Carlo nights should be allowed, but time constrictions should be placed on when they could be organized in order to avoid the possibility of someone opening up a poker tournament hall. It was suggested that these tournaments, if advertised, should be regulated by a gaming commission, and should not last more than three days, nor be held more than three times per year by any one entity.
The committee agreed that any bill brought to the standing committee should include a requirement that at least 75% of the profits from bingo and pull tab games should be used for charitable purposes. The committee suggested using the language in the bill sponsored by the committee last year. (Appendix 9). With respect to poker tournaments, the bill should be clear that the business hosting the game could not receive any direct profit from the game.
The Committee recessed at 12:00 and returned at 1:30 pm.
The committee took additional public comment that is included in the summary above.
The committee agreed that a gaming commission is needed. The committee directed LSO staff to use the language from the Bowren bill as a starting point. (Appendix 10) The committee also asked for an alternative bill that would place the pari-mutuel commission under the purview of the gaming commission.
The committee directed LSO staff to begin drafting a bill or bills that would do the following:
1. Create a gaming commission with the option of: 1) making the present Pari-mutual Commission a committee of the Gaming Commission, or 2) specifying that the pari-mutual function is a division within the Gaming Commission with its own director but that the present functions of the Pari-Mutual Commission would become a part of the larger Gaming Commission.
2. Allow bingo and pull tabs as it is now for non-profits, plus add language that would permit the electronic dauber type bingo (not e-bingo) using the language provided by Steve Cranfill. Also include a requirement that 75% of the proceeds must go to a charitable cause.
3. Poker will be allowed for social groups including businesses. Draft language that changes the definition of "professional gambler" to allow for this. Businesses will not be allowed to get a cut of the pot but can make money indirectly (this will clearly allow football pools and shake a days too). Advertised tournaments will be regulated by the gaming commission and will be limited to three days long, three times a year.
4. Calcutta language will stay the same but will be regulated by the gaming commission.
5. Bring back the instant horse racing bill but include limitations on the number of machines in any one place to 30, and include a definition of terminal.
6. Casino nights will be allowed by non-profits, but will be limited to three days, three times a year like the poker tournaments.
7. Define non-profit using the definition used in surrounding states and to specify that a non-profit must be in existence for three years after receiving IRS non-profit status before engaging in any of the activities under the provisions of the gambling act.
8. Specify that the Commission has the ability to conduct FBI background checks.
There being no further business, Chairman Pat Childers adjourned the meeting at 4:00 pm.
Respectfully submitted,
Pat Childers, Chairman