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July 10 & 11, 2006
Riviera Hotel
Senator Bruce Burns, Co-Chairman
Representative Pat Childers, Co-Chairman
Senator Stan Cooper
Senator Mike Massie
Senator Tony Ross
Senator Michael Von Flatern
Representative Kermit Brown
Representative Kathy Davison
Representative Jerry Iekel
Representative Wayne Reese
Representative Jim Slater
Representative Bill Thompson
Representative Dan Zwonitzer
Representative Keith Gingery
Lynda Cook, Staff Attorney
Representative Rosie Berger
Please refer to Appendix 1 to review the
Committee Sign-in Sheet
for a list of other individuals who attended the meeting.
Co-Chairman Pat Childers called the meeting to order at 8:30 am. The following sections summarize the
Committee proceedings by topic. Please
refer to Appendix 2 to review the Committee Meeting Agenda.
Minutes from the May 2006 Committee meeting were approved.
Milward Simpson,
Director of State Parks addressed the committee.
Pat Green, State
Park and Historic Sites Administrator, introduced a power point presentation
about the use of the major maintenance money that was appropriated to the
department. Todd Thibodeau, Chief
Planner, gave the presentation.
(Appendix 3).
The five-year
critical and deferred maintenance plan was started in late 1990’s, when all
agencies were required to conduct a comprehensive plan. The report identified $29.4 million dollars
in critical and deferred maintenance.
Many of the buildings the department is required to maintain are
historical buildings. The department
also has hundreds of miles of roads to maintain. In 2004 the department received a $7 million
general fund appropriation for critical and deferred maintenance. In 2005 the department received $5 million more. In 2006 the legislature put the $12.9 million
needed for road maintenance before the Transportation Committee for
consideration. They have used some of
the money they have received to date on a road in
Critical and
deferred maintenance is defined as repair that is required to continue the use
of the property as it was intended. The
department has other sources of income including fees, motorboat gas taxes and
the state park road account. The road
account is $500,000 per biennium. The
snowmobile gas tax money goes exclusively to the trails program.
Mr. Thibodeau
described the projects, which have been started:
Mr. Thibodeau then
described the upgrading of the bear creek visitor center. The department added a playground and
upgraded the lavatory facility. They
were able to leverage the critical maintenance money with highway money to
create a better visitor center.
Mr. Thibodeau
described the upgrades at the
Mr. Thibodeau
described the remodel of the warden’s cabin at the Wyoming Territorial
Prison. The department decided that the
historical buildings on the site needed upgrade to improve the visitor
experience. Rep. Iekel asked if any
critical maintenance money was used for improving the
Mr. Thibodeau
described the work that was done at Point of Rocks stage station. The roof of the building needed to be
replaced. The roof was originally sod
but they couldn’t go back to that because it is an unmanned site. They chose to go with the wood shingle roof
similar to what was there in the late 1800’s.
Pat Green noted that Mark Twain described the site in his book “Roughing
It”. Chairman Childers asked if there
was any trouble with vandalism. Mr.
Green stated that there is and they are looking at a plan to secure the
building. The plan is to put a door on
the facility and metal bars on the window that will mimic the old windows. The department is also working with BLM and a
local rancher to have better surveillance.
Mr. Thibodeau described how the stage stop was used as a swing station
after the railroad went through and the Overland Stage route stopped. Chairman Childers asked what the estimate was
to refurbish this site - Mr. Thibodeau agreed to get that number for the
committee.
Mr. Thibodeau showed
the improvements made at
Mr. Thibodeau
described the problems the department had at Hynds Lodge in
Mr. Thibodeau
described the restoration at Medicine Lodge, near Ten Sleep. The ranch house had black mold and the
chimney was sinking and pulling down the building. The site is a benchmark site with
petroglyphs. Senator Massie pointed out
that this is a year round site as it is a jumping off point for snowmobile
trails.
Mr. Thibodeau
provided a synopsis of the amounts and locations where previous critical
maintenance appropriations have been used (Appendix 3). Darren Westby, Parks Engineer, described how
some of the restoration engineering was accomplished. Much of the work is not something that people
will see but was necessary for stabilization.
Senator Massie
pointed out that the Point of Rocks Stage Station is a very important part of
Chairman Childers
pointed out that the federal funds they used for leverage are dwindling. Those grants largely are going to communities
for local recreation areas. The land and
water conservation fund is a federally funded program but it is administered by
the State Parks and Cultural Resources Department.
Rep. Iekel asked if
there were plans for
Mr. Westby then
provided a synopsis of their request for 2007 and where the 4.3 million would
be used. (Appendix 3). Chairman Burns asked for more details on
particular projects. Darren Westby
provided those details.
Chairman Burns asked
about facilities at the expanded area of
Mr. Thibodeau
described ways that other states are dealing with need for additional
revenue. Increasing user fees,
registration fees on recreational vehicles, charging fees for enhanced
facilities (pay showers, RV dumps, rental cabins), trust funds, real estate
transfer tax, lottery funds and sin taxes.
He noted that 50% of visitors at state parks and 80% of visitors at
historic sites are from out of state.
When they polled visitors whether they would be willing to pay more if
the money was used to upgrade parks, over 70% said they would. Chairman Childers noted that the committee
needs to devise a method that allows them to address maintenance into the
future, perhaps by allowing a fee increase and use of more of the enterprise
fund for maintenance. Mr. Thibodeau
pointed out that the enterprise fund is needed for improvements. Mr. Westby pointed out that the critical
maintenance money is just to get things back to ground zero. After that the maintenance becomes major
maintenance. The department had not been
involved in the major maintenance funding formula through the state capitol
facilities before, but now they are.
Milward Simpson
asked the committee for their support for the $4.6 million still needed for
critical maintenance. He also mentioned
the Seecrest land exchange at Bear Creek.
They brought this to the committee at the last meeting. Mr. Thibodeau briefed the committee on the
public meeting that had been held.
Everyone was supportive of the exchange but one person asked about the
accuracy of the appraisal. Once the
exchange happens they would ask the committee to sponsor legislation that would
adjust the boundaries of the park. Jim
Whalen, Office of State Lands, said his office required additional land to
equalize the values and the landowner agreed.
His office will present their findings to the board of land
commissioners in August or October.
Mr. Simpson also
noted that the $29 million total needed for critical maintenance is in 2004
dollars and does not take into account inflation.
He stated that there
is a large homeowners association at Curt Gowdy and they are hoping to get them
involved in support for the department.
Rep. Zwonitzer asked
about an incident at Glendo over July 4th where a firearm was
used. Mr. Simpson noted that we are
getting increased use of Glendo by people from
Senator Massie
mentioned that the legislature provided a one-time appropriation for
libraries. He would like to do that for
historical site interpretation. He asked
the department to put together an estimate of what their needs are to properly
update interpretation at state historical sites. Mr. Simpson will provide that.
Chairman Childers
stated that the committee needs to understand how user fees are changing, how
they relate to tourism, and how they can be used to meet critical needs. Chairman Burns mentioned that they should
consider the true costs of moving resources and personnel around to accommodate
big weekends at Glendo and include that in their budget requests. Chairman Childers also pointed out that these
security issues need to be addressed in the department’s five-year plan. Rep. Brown noted that Forest Service and BLM
have poor law enforcement because they hire biologists and non-trained law
enforcement. He suggested that the
department should think about their organizational structure and consider an
arm of the department that is oriented toward law enforcement and
security. Pat Green explained that they
have to hire out local and county law enforcement that have time off on those
big weekends to meet their needs.
Mr. Simpson provided
a handout showing the Section 106 Undertakings in
Chairman Childers
asked if the state has a problem because the federal agencies are asking for
too much information or being too broad in these undertakings. He noted that the current director of the
state office, Sara Needles, has done a great deal to minimize this
problem.
Mr. Simpson provided
an executive summary of the Historic Context Development Plan (Appendix
5). Written by professional
archeologists and historians, these studies examine a specific historic theme
by reviewing what is already known, what is likely to be found, what is worthy
of preservation and how best to protect the resource. The contexts are prepared in anticipation of
development rather than in response to it.
The executive summary prioritized six contexts. That will help the department decide if
something is an important cultural resource with respect to the larger
contexts. Chairman Childers asked if the
federal government was willing to fund this undertaking. Mr. Simpson said not yet. Senator Massie noted that as an historian he
was initially skeptical about the use of historical contexts. But he is working on the task force creating
these and he has now become a fan of the plan.
It will help expedite the permitting process and allow the state to
protect valuable resources. He also
noted that the SHPO is not only responsible for this permitting process but
they also are responsible for all the historical markers in the state. A handout about the centennial farms program
they administer was provided (Appendix 6).
Chairman Burns asked
why the context of "conflicts between native Americans and white
settlers" was not on the list.
Senator Massie stated that it is probably because most of those sites
have already been catalogued. Rep. Iekel
asked if this would require increased staff.
Mr. Simpson thinks so but the governor denied their request last year.
Mr. Simpson gave a
brief update on the arts council. They
received some funding to hire a folk arts specialist. Grants are available to support traditional
arts in
Mr. Simpson
presented the annual report of the Wyoming Cultural Trust Fund Board. (Appendix 7).
In the last two years the legislature finally funded the trust fund. There is currently $10 million in the fund,
which means that there will be $250,000 in interest available for grants as
soon as the grant criteria are finalized.
They anticipate being able to award the first grants in September. The program is broad and encompasses more
than just the arts. They would like to
fund a matching endowment program.
Chairman Burns noted
that the original legislation did not require legislative approval of the
people who sit on the board. He asked
whether now that they are handling $10 million of state funds that should be
amended. Mr. Simpson said he had no
strong opinion except to say that the process has worked well so far and there
is a tremendously competent board.
Roger Joyce, Program
Director for the
Senator Massie asked
whether the state had developed a policy regarding retention of e-mail. Mr. Joyce said they were working on a policy
right now. They used to err on the side
of retention but they are getting away from that now. Senator Massie wondered if there should be
statutory authority to allow for that policy.
Chairman Burns
mentioned that in his 12 years in the legislature he has heard nothing but
complaints about the attitude and customer friendliness of the employees in
state archives. Mr. Simpson said he
appreciated that comment and he will do something about it.
Mr. Simpson
presented the Historic Mine Trail and Byway System Commission Annual
Report. (Appendix 8). The official signage dedication for the first
trail is scheduled for July 16 at
Mr. Simpson
discussed the historical society liaison position. The historical society used to be part of
state government but became a private non-profit about ten years ago after a
rift. The department now wants to heal
that rift and help those county chapters that need help. Some elements in the historical society are
suspicious of this but for the most part they are ready to come together.
Linda Reynolds
discussed the State veteran’s museum.
Ms. Reynolds explained that in 1998 the commemorative veteran's alliance
wanted a museum to display war veteran’s memorabilia. They found a building that worked well with
impressive murals on the walls.
Initially the alliance just wanted to be put on the state highway map. The museum was designated as a state
historical marker. The volunteer group
then wanted to be covered under state insurance, so legislation was passed to
designate the museum as a state park but the volunteers were to staff the
museum and fund it. As it turns out, the
volunteers did not have any money.
Ultimately, the museum ended up in state parks and they were provided
with a 1.5 FTE to staff the museum. Ms.
Reynolds stated that there are big problems with the museum. The items in the museum do not belong to the
state so they are not covered under state insurance. The volunteers are not cooperative in
transferring the items to the state.
They are not following proper curation procedures and they have made it
so difficult for the state employee that he has just tendered his resignation. The lack of procedures is threatening the
accreditation of the entire state museum system. Chairman Burns asked if the committee needed
to do something to allow state parks to get rid of the museum. Ms. Reynolds stated that the AG has opined
that they would. Senator Massie
suggested that just transferring it to the military department or some other
agency might be appropriate. Rep. Brown
said the department needs to propose a bill – one that sets out several options
(get out, transfer it to another agency) so the committee can make a choice. Rep. Iekel suggested that mediation might
help with the volunteers. Rep. Brown
did note that the committee should work with Representative Lockhart on this. There was also discussion about whether the
building could be moved. Probably not as
the murals actually make up the building.
Ms Reynolds provided
a history of the issues surrounding the
Roger Joyce
explained the upgrades that they were undertaking, most notably security
monitoring and an HVAC system necessary for curative quality control. Ultimately this is a short-term fix. Once the building commission deals with the
St. Mary’s property in
Chairman Childers
asked Terry Cleveland about Game & Fish needs for a building. They are in the same position as state
parks. Senator Massie asked if the St.
Mary’s property could be used. Ms.
Reynolds stated that the building commission is looking at that property for
other agencies. Senator Massie pointed
out that there are other communities in the state that would be happy to have
this facility. Mr. Simpson stated that
the building commission is pretty adamant that this be housed in the Capitol
complex area. Chairman Childers noted
that perhaps the legislature and the governor’s office need to set the building
commission’s priorities for them.
Chairman Burns asked if there were any cases of artifacts that have
deteriorated because of this situation.
Mr. Joyce said there are some pieces they could use to show what is
happening. Mr. Simpson stated that the
urgency is not just degeneration but also that they are running out of
space. They estimate that they will have
no more space to accept archives in the next five years. Additionally, there is no opportunity for
public access to those artifacts.
Chairman Burns
explained how the topic came to be added to the approved interim committee
topics. Jim Whalen, Office of State Lands,
described the unprecedented acquisition of this property. (Appendix 10). The land where the fort and battlefield are
located was originally owned by Texaco, and then was sold to large company in
The land
commission’s rules establish a minimum lease rate that is 5.5% of the appraised
value of the property leased. This is
necessary because of the constitutional requirement that the lands be managed
for the best return to the school fund.
Mr. Whalen also provided a list of other state lands being leased to
other state agencies. (Appendix 11).
Chairman Burns
referred to the maps provided by Mr. Whalen.
The maps show where the state land was prior to the purchase and where
it was now. The maps show that the
original state land did not even cover the footprint of the original fort. The private company had actually purchased
the ranch for residential development and this purchase by the state protects
the integrity of the site. The reason
this is being brought to the committee is because it is questionable whether
the state land board is the proper agency to manage this property because their
concern is to maximize returns to the school foundation. Chairman Burns wants the committee to sponsor
a bill that appropriates money to the departments to purchase the property from
state land board and get it out of their hands.
Rep. Brown pointed out that this is imperative given the recent Supreme
Court decision about the highest/best use for state lands. The committee voted unanimously to have LSO
draft a bill to make the purchase.
With respect to Lake
DeSmet Access, the appraisal is pending but they will have an estimate
soon. Game & Fish already has a
lease on the access that does not expire until 2019. If you compound the land value appreciation
to the time the G&F lease would expire and the board could sell the
property, the property would be worth as much as $750,000.
Senator Massie asked
what the committee believed should be the value. Chairman Burns suggested that appraisals are
good for a year so they could value the property based on the appraisal with an
appreciation factor for the year so long as the bill provides for closing prior
to May, 2007.
Chairman Childers
asked if the other lands leased by Game & Fish should be transferred as
well. They are mostly based on agricultural
uses. The problem is that the other
lands would all need to be appraised in order to do that. Rep. Brown explained the Supreme Court
decision. The legislature mandated the
trust and therefore was it constitutional to make ten-year commitments on the
property. He thinks that because it is a
legislatively created trust, they probably have a fair amount of latitude in
allowing the other leases.
The committee
discussed whether the bill should also include the state park leases on
Independent Rock, Curt Gowdy and Hawk Springs reservoir. Mr. Whalen said that the appraisals would
need to be updated. The committee agreed
that they should be included. Linda
Reynolds pointed out that the water development commission is currently looking
at options for Hawk Springs reservoir and will make recommendations to the
legislature in December. That may change
what the committee wants to do with this.
07 LSO 0049.W1 – State parks pioneer license. (Appendix 12)
Rep. Hammons asked
that the committee consider this bill.
It would allow residents over the age of 70 who have continuously
resided in the state to receive a
Diane Shober
introduced members of the Tourism Board who were present.
Ms. Shober discussed
a larger plan that the tourism board is undertaking to explore where the
department should be placed and what efforts it should be undertaking.
The department has
had a film office since 1986. They have
seen many commercials made in
Rep. Brown asked how
these subsidies are different from subsidies in other industries that are
arbitrated in the World Trade Organizations.
Gene Bryan, Cody Chamber of Commerce, pointed out that the reason we
lost “An Unfinished Life” was because of the exchange rate rather than the
subsidies.
Ms. Shober provided
a power point presentation to show the value of a film incentive program. (Appendix 13). She argued that just having
Media value is huge
too. "
The state does have
a few incentives. Private businesses
offer a 10% discount on certain production expenses. There is no room tax if someone stays longer
than thirty days.
Ms. Shober showed
the increase in
Ms. Shober noted
that there is the added value of the increased interest in coming to
Chairman Burns noted
that this would help build up the infrastructure so other companies would have
the incentive to come here too.
Representative Rosie Berger suggested that it also develops a workforce
that is capable of staying here and supporting the industry. Ms. Shober stated that the department would
be able to get into workforce development if they could get the films here in
the first place.
07 LSO 0018.W1 – film production incentives.
(Appendix 14).
Rep. Berger
explained how the bill would provide an incentive to film in
Rep. Brown asked how
the state should distinguish what industries are worthy of subsidizing in this
way. If Wal-Mart wanted to build a
distribution center why couldn’t the state create a program that would give
them incentives to build?
There was discussion
about how the business council could avoid giving incentives to a film that
trashed
Rep. Brown asked how
the council would define an “entity engaged in the state in producing filmed
entertainment”. Rep. Berger said that
may need to be specified.
Senator Ross
questioned how she came up with the figure of $2 million.
The committee took
public testimony. Lynn Birleffi, Wyoming
Convention and Visitor’s Bureau, testified that it is a good way to diversity
the economy. They have seen what these
incentives have done for
Clay Miller, dude
ranch owner, testified that a good marketing plan involves more than
advertising. The publicity these movies
get adds credibility to the state’s advertising. There has always been a big bump in tourism
when a movie about
Gene Bryan, Cody
Chamber and Economic Development Council, stated that this is an opportunity to
help create the next economy. This is
one of those rare chances to set the building blocks for entry into another
economy.
Matt Driscoll, camp
owner at Devil’s Tower, testified that he wouldn’t be in business if it wasn’t
for the movie "Close Encounters".
Milward Simpson,
State Parks Director, testified that he sees this as a way for the state to
capitalize on the beauty and grandeur of the state.
Pat Sweeney, Tourism
Board and hotel owner, testified on the impact from the movie “Starship
Troopers”. When "Brokeback
Mountain" was looking whether to film here he tried to get local
businesses to put together incentives funded by the private sector and he
wasn’t able to get enough together. He
stated that unless we try this we are kidding ourselves that we are even trying
for economic diversity. We need to give
this it’s first breath of air.
Senator Cooper asked
if the legislature would be better to use incentives to fund local businesses
rather than giving it to business from out of state. Mr. Sweeney talked about the residual dollars
that are left here when the out of state business is enticed to come here.
Dave Hanks, Rock
Springs Chamber of Commerce, testified regarding the need for diversity in the
economy. He is concerned that energy
development won’t always be the biggest member of the economy and we need to
plan for it. He also pointed out that
all the little communities on the way to the beautiful places get a benefit
from tourism.
Rep. Zwonitzer moved
the bill and Chairman Burns seconded.
Senator Ross preferred to put the bill off to the next meeting until he
has had time to review the attorney general’s opinion and staff’s memo about
the constitutionality of the program.
LSO agreed to provide that information to the committee. The motion was withdrawn in favor of taking a
straw poll on whether the committee wants to take on the bill for further
consideration. The committee voted to go
ahead. Rep. Berger asked for comments to
strengthen the bill be sent to staff prior to the November meeting so that the
bill will be in good shape ahead of time.
The committee
recessed until July 11, 2006.
The committee
reconvened at 8:30 am July 11, 2006.
Terry Cleveland,
Game and Fish Director, introduced the commission members and staff present.
Kathy Frank,
Assistant Chief Fiscal Officer for the Game & Fish Commission, provided a
15-year review of the department’s revenues and expenditures. (Appendix
15).
The department’s
financial position in the long term is not optimistic. Cash balances have declined over the last 20
years. That is partially because license
sales volumes have declined. Disease
issues, access issues, habitat issues, energy impacts and federal policy
decisions will continue to result in increased management costs. Short-term fixes (third party funding, fee
adjustments not directly related to inflation, new revenue sources) has kept
the agency solvent in the short term.
Chairman Burns asked about the third party funding. They include grants to deal with specific
projects and are largely federal, but also include non-governmental
entities. Approximately 75% are
federal. Short-term fixes have also
included lowering costs. After 1995 the
department cut back on capital construction.
Two hatcheries and two warden stations were closed. Permanent hunter check stations were closed
and 15 mobile hunter information stations were eliminated. Prior to 1995 the department gave grants for
shooting ranges and others to develop and promote local recreation
opportunities. Visitor centers were cut
back or eliminated. Work on interpretive
signs and kiosks at highway rest areas was eliminated. Cooperative educational programs were
eliminated. They haven’t been
discontinued altogether, but they cut out some of them or fund them through
competitive grant money. Publications
were reduced. The department eliminated
all department housing at wildlife habitat management units and transferred
personnel to regional offices. The
department got out of the ferret and toad propagation programs. They closed their in-house sign shop. They cut back on their involvement with the
Cooperative Extension Unit at the University of Wyoming and fund what is still
done largely through federal grants.
They eliminated refurbishment of comfort stations at public fishing
areas. Finally, land acquisition has
changed from fee title acquisition to access leases. They have tried to hold operating costs
static. Rep. Iekel asked what cuts were
the hardest and did they result in a reduction of force. In 1995 they cut thirty positions, but they
were satisfied largely through early retirement and shifting of personnel. Ms. Frank noted that they cut quite a few
positions in specialized law enforcement but over time have moved positions
back because they turned out to be very important. Terry Cleveland pointed out that they have
eliminated some positions but were able to use that savings to convert lower
salary contract positions to permanent, thus resulting in more people but no
cost increase.
Other areas where
they have tried to reduce or keep costs static include aerial surveys. Classifications are now done on alternate
years instead of annually, trend counts have been reduced and surveys of small
moose and big horn sheep herds have been eliminated. Fish division replaced creel survey
flights. They have reduced uniform costs
by giving allowances instead of mass producing uniforms and providing
them. They changed license applications
and that has reduced printing costs.
Vehicle replacement and use has changed.
Heavy equipment was pooled to regional offices and some large pieces
were eliminated. They standardized their
vehicle bids and went with statewide bids.
They also capped the annual mileage allowable. They now use cost studies to determine
vehicle replacement times.
Fish division has
cut costs by reducing temporary employee time for fish counts by use of sonar.
With respect to
positions, when a position opens up they look at it from an agency perspective
and allocate them accordingly. They have
drastically reduced the number of seasonal or contract employees and third
party funding now funds a majority.
There is a trend to have permanent employees funded through third party
funds, but they try to limit that to long-term grants. Permanent employee numbers have gone up some
but most changes have been cost neutral or through federal funding.
Where did the
savings go? Inflation, skyrocketing
health insurance, legislative market pay and COLA adjustments, retrofitting
several hatcheries, access programs and electronic licensing.
Chairman Burns asked
about the market pay increases. Ms.
Frank stated that they mirror the legislatively required increases for other
agencies, but they don’t receive any new money from the legislature.
Statutorily the
department is required to adopt an annual budget rather than a biennial
budget. Ms. Frank described the timeline
of review of the budget through the department, commission and governor’s office. The process starts with a target based on
revenue forecasts and operating cash balances, inflation predictions and
commission priorities. They establish
standard rates for use throughout the agency, such as vehicle rates per mile,
contract employee pay classes, travel reimbursement rates, etc.
There was discussion
of the mileage allowable caps. John
Emmerich, Deputy Director, testified that the mileage limits are reflected in
the employees' performance appraisals.
They do have flexibility in certain cases and the limits reflect the
realities of each district.
Terry Cleveland also
noted that when they lose an employee, they leave that position open until the
accumulated sick leave is paid out.
Senator Ross asked
how many game wardens there are currently.
They have 50 game wardens, four trainees, and then there are 6 special
investigators. In addition, there are
other peace officers who hold supervisor or other technicians positions. The housing makes the actual game warden
positions more expensive. They do have
to move people around the state to handle increased problem times and
areas. Rep. Brown asked whether the
public believes that they are getting the job done with the law enforcement
personnel they have. John Emmerich
stated that they constantly hear that the public would like to see more law
enforcement personnel on the ground.
There was discussion about the level of education necessary to become a
technician. The education is the same as
a game warden but the position requires much less experience.
Rep. Iekel asked
about the public perception of their use of resources. Mr. Cleveland stated that they are largely
being asked for more law enforcement, more access and more hunting
opportunities. To get more hunting
opportunities they need to work on habitat improvement. With respect to impacts of energy
development, the problem they have is having enough people on the ground to
work out the issues. The people doing
this are still needed to get their normal jobs done. Mr. Cleveland also noted that the hunters and
anglers are saying that they are tired of paying for species that are not
hunted.
Rep. Reese asked
about enforcement of boating laws. The
authority rests with the commission although any peace officer can enforce them. Of those eight new technician positions that
they created by eliminating two wardens, they spend 5-6 months of the year
enforcing watercraft regulations.
There was discussion
about the game damage payment system.
Chairman Childers asked if that is perceived as adequate. Mr. Cleveland stated that regardless of
whether it is adequate, it’s the most liberal system in the country. Sometime in the last 15 years people have begun
to realize the economic value of having wildlife. Therefore they are seeing less damage claims
on damage from big game animals.
Conversely, there have been increased trophy game damage claims.
Senator Burns
reminded the committee that the topic of discussion is the Game & fish
budgeting process and Ms. Frank returned to her presentation.
In each sub-program,
budget costs are itemized. If a budget
item has more than a 3% increase there must be documentation to support
it. Ms. Frank walked the committee
through the itemization provided in representative budgets. Property taxes have increased dramatically in
2006 because of appraisals.
Ms. Frank explained
the 2007 budget for the department. Over
50% of the costs are attributed to personnel and benefits costs. Senator Massie pointed out that the cost
drivers appear to be personnel, utilities, gasoline and “cost allocation” which
is what they pay to other agencies.
Because those costs are increasing at a rate higher than inflation, the
department has had to have other areas not increase at the rate of inflation.
Chairman Burns asked
LSO staff to draft a bill that would remove the special tax assessment on Game
and Fish properties provided in W.S. 39-13-103(b)(xii). Rep. Brown asked for a research memo
outlining the history of that tax. It
was noted that game and fish is the only state agency that has to pay property
taxes.
Ms. Frank testified
that the department reports monthly to the commission and the state budget
office. The report shows how the actual
expenditures coincide with the budget estimates. The auditor's department audits them annually
and every five years by the USFWS to ensure federal funds are not being
diverted from wildlife uses.
Ms. Frank finally
explained the department’s cost accounting system. The codes break down every hour of every
employee's day, every vehicle mile and every payment by species and
activity. They use the project codes for
billing, management and informational purposes.
Senator Massie asked
about cash reserves. There appear to be
different numbers in the packet. Ms.
Frank explained that those are projections and they differ based on the time
they are projected to. She also noted that the cash balance at a specific
period of time may reflect the amounts collected with license applications,
some of which will have to be returned after the draw.
Terry Cleveland gave
a presentation on the Department’s proposal for alternative funding. (Appendix
16). He stated that the enabling
legislation for the department has not much changed in 80 years. However, there is no way those legislators 80
years ago could have imagined the realities of today’s management needs. License fees themselves will not meet the
needs of the department today. There are
too many other requirements on the department: threatened and endangered
species, conflicts between big and trophy game animals, new disease
issues. The legislature has been very
generous in the last two years with general fund appropriations for specific
capital construction needs. License fees
have been increased periodically to offset the impacts of inflation, generally
at four-year intervals. The problem is
that license fees and federal aid will not allow them to meet their statutory
mandate. Hunters and anglers are tired
of supporting all the programs. There is
a need for a stable, long term funding program.
They chose programs
that are not specifically mentioned in title 23, ones that benefit more than
hunters and anglers, unfunded mandates from other sources, or involve
conservation of species that might potentially be listed under the ESA. The five areas are Sensitive species,
Habitat, Conservation Education, Wildlife Diseases and Other.
Management of
sensitive species costs $845,000 each year and includes terrestrial native
species, aquatic native species and trophy game conflict resolution. This does not include the costs for managing
trophy game animals.
Habitat costs
$2,158,000 and includes aquatic habitat management, habitat extension, and
terrestrial habitat management.
Education costs
$1,101,000 and includes educational programs (excluding hunter education) and
publications.
The area entitled
"Other" covers costs of $952,000 and includes Salecs and cost
allocation, which is payments the department has to make to other state
agencies for computer use, etc.
They are asking for
$5,056,000 per year to run those programs and to transfer 41 existing state
employees to a general fund budget. They
would also like to continue the $670,000 for sage grouse conservation and
$1,500,000 for veterinary services that was included in last year's
appropriation.
If that five million
dollars is freed up the department could provide funding for old priorities
that have been cut out over the last 15 years, including law enforcement,
terrestrial and aquatic wildlife management, fish and wildlife research, public
access areas and personnel costs, especially health care costs. They are not prepared to say exactly how they
would spend that money because it would have to go through the commission, but
these are the general areas that they would look at.
Senator Massie asked
if the money was available, would they need the license fee increase. Mr. Cleveland said they would likely not in
the short term, but the license fee increase is meant to keep up with
inflation. They would have to come back
later though and the inflation adjustment would need to be made. Senator Massie pointed out that the fees
schedule was set to meet their whole budget so if some money comes from other
place then the fees can be smaller.
Rep. Brown asked
where wolves were in the budget. They
are not there and Cleveland estimates it would be a million dollar
program.
Rep. Iekel asked if
the department got the $5 million and the license fee increase, would the
department be back to where they were 15 years ago. He wanted to know if that is an adequate
level of service to the public. Mr.
Cleveland says it would go a long way toward addressing their needs.
The department needs
to balance accountability to the legislature with the responsibility and
political neutrality of the commission.
Their recommendation is a biennial allocation to the commission in the
form of “planned accountability” funding.
He believes the commission form of governance has worked well over the
last 80 years. Chairman Childers asked
whether they should just increase the general fund appropriation and not
increase the license fees, as a way of spreading the responsibility to the
wildlife viewers instead of piling more on the hunters and anglers. Rep. Iekel wants a targeted budget request
rather than the general approach suggested by Mr. Cleveland.
Mr. Cleveland
discussed the proposed license fee increase to meet inflation. The fact is that hunting is no longer a form
of subsistence; it is a sport and subject to inflation. Rep. Brown suggested that the long lines that
formed to gather the free elk meat this winter proves that there are people on
fixed incomes who do subsistence hunt.
Senator Ross
suggested that the new money shouldn’t be used to restore all the old
programs. Some things don’t need to be
brought back. Mr. Cleveland agreed.
Senator Massie asked
for more specifics about what they would do with the money. He wants more information on the programs
they would bring back.
07 LSO 0045.W1-Game and fish-license fees.
(Appendix 17).
John Emmerich,
Deputy Director, provided a presentation on a proposed license fee
increase. (Appendix 18). The department has done all they can to cut
costs. Now they have to look at
increasing revenues. The department only
comes back every four years for an inflation based license fee increase. In a very real sense the department lives on
a fixed income based on the number of licenses sold.
The implicit price
deflator (IPD) is used because it is more relevant than the CPI to government
agencies. From 2004 through 2007 the IPD
shows an estimated inflation between 19.7 and 22%. They therefore presume a 20% rate. The proposal is for an increase across the
board, rounded to the nearest dollar.
This would also include an increase in the amount the sales agents
retain.
Mr. Emmerich showed
the comparison with surrounding states.
Wyoming's prices are fairly similar and mostly lower. He also showed how the ratio of the cost of
resident and non-resident licenses compares with other states and they are very
similar. This raise would generate
approximately 5.6 million dollars per year.
Rep. Brown asked if
the increase was implemented, is there a way to know what the effect of the
income is by species. The cost
allocation system allows them to track the allocation by species. What he wants to know is whether the money
raised would go directly to programs that support hunting and fishing. Mr. Cleveland said that if they get an
adequate system to fund the other programs they would try to use this stream of
money to deal with consumptive programs.
The committee took
public testimony.
Lou Cicco, Sportsman
for Fish and Wildlife, Cody chapter, testified that his group would not support
any license fee increase. Funding should
come from other sources. He provided a
synopsis of the rates being charged in Montana showing they charge residents
much less. His club is giving kids free
licenses in his area and they haven’t given many away. He is concerned that this shows that kids are
not very actively participating in hunting.
It was noted that Montana has direct general fund appropriations. A family of four who hunts deer, elk,
antelope and fish would spend $600.
Chairman Burns noted that a yearly fishing license costs less than a
tank of gas right now.
Coal Benton,
Foundation for North American Sheep, testified that his organization was
against an increase. However, hearing
the testimony today he thinks as long as the increase is 20% across the board,
it would be okay.
Ben Lamb, Wyo.
Wildlife Federation, agreed that nonresidents feel that they are supporting
more than their share. His group has not
taken a stand on the proposal yet, but if this goes forward there had better be
an increase in general funding too.
Sportsmen should not be carrying the brunt.
Bob Wharf, Sportsmen
for Fish and Wildlife, stated that his board as a whole has not taken a stand
either, but if we increase non-resident fees at some point it is going to be
too much. If that happens, residents are
going to have to carry it. They would
rather see alternative funding rather than a license fee increase. He agrees that these two bills should go
through together. Rep. Brown asked what
his board would think if they just indexed the price to the IPD the same way
the department’s costs go. He didn’t
know. It might be easier to see a little increase every year than a substantial
increase all at once. Again, they
support a consistent stream of revenue from all the people of the state rather
than just the hunters and anglers. Chairman
Childers asked if any other states index their prices. Mr. Cleveland said he would get them that
information.
Linda Fleming,
G&F Commission, testified that whatever mix of revenue streams they come up
with, she does not think it is prudent to wait longer than four years.
Jason Marsden, Wyo.
Conservation Voters, testified that his board has also not looked at it, but
given their support in the past he thinks they will support it. He likes Rep. Brown’s idea of indexing
because it is tough to make the big jump.
He noted that everything else goes up as soon as costs go up. He noted that today the Casper Star has a
large headline reading “License fees to go up 20%”, but they did not have one
last year that said “You’re license is costing you 6% less this year”. His group is not just hunters and he stated
that he does not sense any ill will on behalf of the non-hunters against
general fund allocations.
Jerry Galles, Game
and Fish Commission, testified that the fee increases need to be considered separate
from the other sources of income because the license fee increase is based on
just meeting inflation.
Senator Massie
commented that it seems like that the committee has three bills that could
affect game and fish funding. He
believes that all three should be considered together. He would like to move those to the next
meeting and have staff put the revenue streams from the power ball bill into
game and fish and require proposed budgets should be submitted to the TRW
committee and appropriations. Chairman
Childers is concerned that a powerball bill might lose and that would lose the
chance for game and fish funding.
Senator Massie suggested that the bill could have a provision that would
make the fee bill implemented if the powerball bill did not pass. Chairman Burns asked about how the revenue
recoupment bill could be tied in.
Senator Massie stated that the committee hasn’t discussed how the
several revenue streams could be put together.
Senator Von Flatern does not want to tie in the revenue recoupment
because it's different and may kill it all.
Chairman Burns sees the recoupment bill as one that makes up for the
past years that Game and Fish has been forced to deal with feel-good
legislation. Chairman Childers agreed
that recoupment should stand by itself.
Rep. Iekel is concerned about the lottery bill being tied to a bill
reflecting inflationary needs. The
lottery bill could be changed and that would undercut the cause. Rep. Davison stated that people who are
opposed to lottery are not going to vote for it. Senator Massie stated that if they put them
all out on their own then G&F will probably get their license fee increase
and the revenue stream from the lottery is going to go to somewhere else. Senator Von Flatern pointed out that you can’t
have the license fee be the fallback because it needs to go through this
session.
Rep. Zwonitzer moved
the bill, Rep. Slater seconded. Rep.
Brown would rather see another bill that indexes the fees. He moved to amend to include an indexing of
the fees to the IDP from the effective date of the bill forward. Chairman Burns spoke against the motion
because although he agrees with it he thinks it will kill the bill. The senate holds the ability to affect
license fees close to the heart. Rep.
Brown withdrew his amendment.
Rep. Zwonitzer asked
why the wolf prices are so low. It
reflected the feeling at the time.
Brown asked the LSO
draft a bill to use an annual adjustment factor.
The bill passed
unanimously.
07 LSO 0065.W1-Game and fish-license revenue
recoupment. (Appendix 19).
Rep. Reese moved the
bill and Rep. Slater seconded. Senator
Massie moved that licenses sold under W.S. 23-2-201(f) and 23-2-207(a) be
included and 23-1-705(g) be removed from the bill. Rep. Davison seconded. The amendment passed
The bill, as
amended, passed unanimously.
07 LSO 0047.W1-Game and fish violations.
(Appendix 20).
Mr. Cleveland
described the bill. If a person is
convicted and a court suspends that person's license to hunt, a person can go
out and be checked and just say he is hunting coyotes. Chairman Burns questioned why they couldn’t
just say they are just walking around with a gun. Mr. Cleveland stated that the officer would
still have to develop probable cause that he was attempting to take wildlife. The bill also allows a court to revoke a
person's ability to hunt any wildlife.
The bill also extends the revocation period to six years. Roger Breodehoft, game warden, explained that
the intention is that this is a decision made by the judge.
Chairman Childers
proposed an amendment that was explained by Game Warden Craig Sax. (Appendix 21). The amendment would provide that a person who
is on probation for violation of the game and fish laws and has not paid his
restitution cannot purchase another license.
The amendment passed.
The bill passed as
amended (Davison opposed).
07 LSO 0048.W1- Game and Fish
violations-penalties. (Appendix 22).
The bill provides
for additional penalties for second or subsequent violations of the winter
range statute and the wanton destruction statute. Mr. Cleveland suggested that the time period
be extended to ten years instead of five years.
Senator Ross asked whether wanton destruction requires knowingly doing
it. While it is not in the statute, that
is how it is enforced.
Cole Benton
mentioned that he has seen this happen on his own property. Ben Lamb, Wyoming Wildlife Federation,
supports the bill as a way to control the egregious poaching violations. Craig Sax, game warden, testified that these
are severe violations which require intent.
This bill is a very strong deterrent and a tool for investigation. Jason Marsden and Bob Wharf both supported
the legislation.
Chairman Childers
moved the change to ten years. Seconded
by Rep. Iekel. Senator Ross urged
against the amendment. The motion
passed.
Senator Massie moved
changing the term of imprisonment to five years. Rep. Brown pointed out that the ten years is
just the upper limit. He doesn’t want to
decrease the judge’s discretion. Chairman
Childers wants to see strong penalties.
The motion failed.
The bill passed as
amended. (Massie and Ross opposed).
Senator Ross moved
that the LSO draft the lottery bill to give the money to game and fish. The motion passed.
Chairman Childers moved
to have LSO draft a bill that dedicates 1/8 of a cent of sales tax to game and
fish. Senator Cooper seconded. Senator Ross opposed the motion and thought
it would be better to draft a bill that would come from general funds. Rep. Brown considered it earmarking and did
not support it. The motion failed.
Senator Ross moved
to have LSO staff draft a bill to direct alternative funding of 5.6 million
from general funds as requested by the department in Director Cleveland’s
presentation. The motion passed
unanimously.
The next meeting
will be in November at a time and date and location to be chosen by the
committee chairmen.
Rep. Thompson
congratulated John Emerrich on his promotion.
There being no further business, Co-Chairman Pat Childers adjourned the
meeting at 4:20 p.m.
Respectfully
submitted,
Bruce Burns,
Co-Chairman Pat
Childers, Co-Chairman