File name: JAC Budget Hearings FY 13-14_20120119_073518.dcr Folder: C:\Documents and Settings\HAppropriations\Desktop\Recordings 5 ~ 1/19/2012 8:07:54 AM ~ Berger: continue with community college 1:38 ~ 1/19/2012 8:09:26 AM ~ Rose: review funding model. Handout Did niot cover yesterday two programs that the Gov recommended. Overseas Vet Wyoming Nursing and..... 2:55 ~ 1/19/2012 8:10:43 AM ~ Wyoming nursing and investment repaid by working in the states. Covers other nursing degrees Continuing to address health .... Change of of loan payments Pg 65 Veteran Loan program... Asking for 1.2 million loans for combat veterans.. Statute provides for it so we have the capacity to pay for this but we would have to reduce the amount 7:19 ~ 1/19/2012 8:15:07 AM ~ Berger: How much is this used? 7:40 ~ 1/19/2012 8:15:29 AM ~ Rose We do Total 407 participatant 2007-8 bi funds a 283 community colleges $894 for community colleges Most surprising results are in graduate degrees $92,,000 graduate degrees UW has a lot of this money because of the grad degrees 10:34 ~ 1/19/2012 8:18:23 AM ~ Nicholas: Sposuses and depends Have to be a relative or spouse of an overseas combat.... Veterans use it the most Many have chosen to use this rather than the Vet 12:07 ~ 1/19/2012 8:19:55 AM ~ Berger Questions 12:17 ~ 1/19/2012 8:20:06 AM ~ Rose Other budget that I would have you look at.... pg 47 Distance education is one we have received money but given the uncertainty of the distance learning, maybe we shouldn't pursue ....Might be a duplication. We depart from the Gov recommendation. Also we estimate 2% funds Gov. recommendation on.... 16:43 ~ 1/19/2012 8:24:32 AM ~ Nicholas: Original purpose of this was meant as an incentive program 17:26 ~ 1/19/2012 8:25:14 AM ~ Rose: 'This was meant to have the same program at all community colleges. Mentor to helpm students at risk ... 18:32 ~ 1/19/2012 8:26:21 AM ~ Nicholas It is a great idea but why wouldn't you do that with all students? 19:03 ~ 1/19/2012 8:26:52 AM ~ Rose: It is very labor intensive. Students have to be identified, .....Select classes for them that they might need prior to selecting... Collecting and reporting all this data takes a lot of time 21:26 ~ 1/19/2012 8:29:15 AM ~ Berger How would they get this money to the colleges. Apply? 22:00 ~ 1/19/2012 8:29:49 AM ~ Rose: Colleges would apply for the grants 22:25 ~ 1/19/2012 8:30:14 AM ~ Steward: How many make it throough the freshmen year and that wae retain for the next year. Demographics are important 23:31 ~ 1/19/2012 8:31:20 AM ~ Rose Yes 23:39 ~ 1/19/2012 8:31:28 AM ~ Steward What is your matrix for this information you have collected You have a spread sheet which tells us where we are now. This data would show.. Since it is a one time , ... 26:41 ~ 1/19/2012 8:34:30 AM ~ Rose: Colleges may pick this up 27:25 ~ 1/19/2012 8:35:14 AM ~ Many of our students are part time. 35% nationally complete but our completion is much higher 29:06 ~ 1/19/2012 8:36:55 AM ~ Berger Handout 171 is the draft for illustration on funding allocation model Set of rules proposed which would have taken place in 2008. Gov Fredenthal did not sign on that. Row 4 State aid row 5 Net budget Row 6 shows starting point for next two years Row 7 Local revue 34:28 ~ 1/19/2012 8:42:17 AM ~ Nicholas: I want to tie this into the buget on page 32 35:14 ~ 1/19/2012 8:43:03 AM ~ Petry : Explains money for retirement, health insurance... State Aid-$187 million 38:20 ~ 1/19/2012 8:46:09 AM ~ Nicholas: Growth in your budget 39:27 ~ 1/19/2012 8:47:16 AM ~ Nicholas Going back to page What goes into the base budget It includes the health insurance payment 40:43 ~ 1/19/2012 8:48:32 AM ~ Berger Continue 40:51 ~ 1/19/2012 8:48:40 AM ~ Petry The 60 mill figure is down about 10 mill Line 7 from 2 years ago. They have recovered about 10% Row 8 This is base funding Row 10 of the spread sheet is an annual figure Rows 11 & 12 Fixed costs and variable costs 43:10 ~ 1/19/2012 8:50:59 AM ~ Nicholas I understand your cost allocations How do you address that 44:02 ~ 1/19/2012 8:51:51 AM ~ Petry We hired a consultant to take the actual expeniture costs and he broke it down into fixed and variable costs. 60% of your ...... Student costs 20% are considered variable Student financial aie..... Those are the components of the variable costs Row 14 The base period is 2004 & 2005. That was just before the downturn. What you see on that row is an average 47:34 ~ 1/19/2012 8:55:23 AM ~ Petry That is correct. "Weighted" credit hours Level 1 instructure Level 2 more equipment Level 3 great deal of equipments and possible reduced class size. That will depend on those same critieria 49:09 ~ 1/19/2012 8:56:58 AM ~ Nicholas If the prof. does a class and it is taped. If you get 10,000 on the east coast to watch it, it would drive up your credit hours. 50:19 ~ 1/19/2012 8:58:08 AM ~ Petry That is correct. Row 16 What that is doiong is taking row 11 and divide by the credit hours of row 14. That is how much it costs to teach a credit hour. The next row is the states portion 82% is paid by the state. Just the opposite What that does is establish a rate for each additional hour of enrollment. You can see the increase of students on row 14. That gives you an idea of the scope of increase. 53:17 ~ 1/19/2012 9:01:06 AM ~ Rose We provide some of that data 53:36 ~ 1/19/2012 9:01:25 AM ~ Nicholas I have a hard time of you saying these are enrollment hours. 54:15 ~ 1/19/2012 9:02:04 AM ~ Rose We can try to ogment the way we report the on campus students compared to online. 55:03 ~ 1/19/2012 9:02:51 AM ~ Nicholas What does it take to be a resident to go to a community college. Same as UW. 56:01 ~ 1/19/2012 9:03:50 AM ~ Nicholas Live bodies on campus , which ones are Wyoming students 56:36 ~ 1/19/2012 9:04:25 AM ~ Rose That data is already in the report. The colleges primary are instate students. That whole picture is relative cloudy. We would be happy to provide. There are two calculations that we report. How many warm bodies. 3/4 ar not full time equivilant. But a student who only takes 3 hours is 1/4 of a full time student. 59:39 ~ 1/19/2012 9:07:28 AM ~ Nicholas If UW did the same thing UW would play in the same sandbox 1:00:14 ~ 1/19/2012 9:08:03 AM ~ Rose Ultimately for use to make some comparison we have to divide up the pie. 1:00:51 ~ 1/19/2012 9:08:40 AM ~ Nicholas My concern is how you are reporting that Now to use the same system to justify an additional 14 mill. in costs Now you have this credit hour increase with the same facilities, equipment and staff. 1:02:38 ~ 1/19/2012 9:10:27 AM ~ Rose Any changes in an exception form so the legislation is driving the budget. We are just trying to show the difference between the varies colleges needs. 1:04:03 ~ 1/19/2012 9:11:52 AM ~ Nicholas What is the growth and enrollment. If I hire 3 lawyers, I'm looking for growth in hours billed. How do we know what new facility need to be hired. 1:05:29 ~ 1/19/2012 9:13:18 AM ~ Rose No matter how you count it, it has had a signigicant increase in costs. 1:06:14 ~ 1/19/2012 9:14:03 AM ~ Nicholas A 3 month welding program how does that count. If he or she 1:06:51 ~ 1/19/2012 9:14:40 AM ~ Rose For the entire year that student is considered a 1/2 1:07:16 ~ 1/19/2012 9:15:05 AM ~ Nicholas I would like to see who is growing and who is just hanging in there 1:07:43 ~ 1/19/2012 9:15:32 AM ~ Berger Do it as a packet and also electronically 1:08:02 ~ 1/19/2012 9:15:50 AM ~ Petry Rows 19 -21 reflect the two most recent years of enrollment. This is the growth the colleges have experience over a 6 year period. What we do then is go through calculations and how much is attributed to each school for enrollment costs Row 26 We have broken that down into individual years, that would be Row 10. I'm going to skip row 27, row 28 is fixed costs. This is where we are actually comparing row..... That is where we calculate what we are going to ask for our budget. Since the governor's office did not ask for external costs. What you see if we take the grand total of ..... That wil be our standard budget of 181,000,000. Rows 40 and 27 are our total growth. This shows the method and the total amount needed from the legislature. That is essentially correct. All it really amounts to is taking their current enrollment and taking that difference and multiplying it by that difference. 1:15:22 ~ 1/19/2012 9:23:11 AM ~ Nicholas IF you say UW teach more students at a lower cost 1:16:05 ~ 1/19/2012 9:23:54 AM ~ Petry If a college has fixed costs that are higher than the average, they do not benefit from that. If we see a smaller enrollment 1:17:07 ~ 1/19/2012 9:24:56 AM ~ Harshman You have all the base numbers 1:17:25 ~ 1/19/2012 9:25:14 AM ~ Petry We have a base dollor amount and it is on Row 4. That is correct The only way the base can increase is through the budget office 1:18:30 ~ 1/19/2012 9:26:19 AM ~ Harshman: 1:19:13 ~ 1/19/2012 9:27:02 AM ~ Petry: Agreement that 2004/5 enrollments were a stable enrollment, not a great deal different from 180 million dollars 1:19:53 ~ 1/19/2012 9:27:42 AM ~ Harshman: Used as baseline? 1:20:01 ~ 1/19/2012 9:27:49 AM ~ Petry: Yes, 1:20:07 ~ 1/19/2012 9:27:55 AM ~ Harshman: Would like to see that number 1:20:17 ~ 1/19/2012 9:28:06 AM ~ Nicholas: did you describe system that locks...frozen. 1:20:39 ~ 1/19/2012 9:28:28 AM ~ Rose: Over time would recover costs, structured budget exception requests. If you denied request, costs wuold be absorbed by the cooleg 1:21:19 ~ 1/19/2012 9:29:07 AM ~ Nicholas: Start at a base, ...rebase? 1:21:34 ~ 1/19/2012 9:29:23 AM ~ Rose: Recalibration provision; To increase ...it is through external cost adjustment. As college inc in enrolllment, the costs are reflected in exception request. college living with funding based on 2004/5 1:22:26 ~ 1/19/2012 9:30:15 AM ~ Nicholas: Premise is not correct, would have to compare to base now 1:23:07 ~ 1/19/2012 9:30:56 AM ~ Rose: line 5 , Decision to biennialize, so reflected in base. Any approprations for adj to enrollment are one time funding. This request will last only for 13/14 biennium. 1:23:52 ~ 1/19/2012 9:31:40 AM ~ Nicholas: Bring your base budget for base year. Assume credit units will never go down. Assumption that formula will always redeliver that 14 millin or more 1:24:36 ~ 1/19/2012 9:32:25 AM ~ Petry: Selectin of 2005/5 was factor of two things: most recent year for certifiable enrollment and a relatively stable enrollment period. The std budget of 187 million necessary for fixed costs of base period.. Could have a situation where enrollment could decline, but would have to decline sign. from where it is now. Term "Hold Harmless" clause: be guaranteed a certain level of funding regardless of where fixed costs are and enrollment, Notion rejected when HB 114 was passed in 2009 session. Some aspects of the model were incorporated. 1:26:46 ~ 1/19/2012 9:34:35 AM ~ Nicholas: 04/05 budget books will have same base of 180 million? 1:27:08 ~ 1/19/2012 9:34:57 AM ~ Petry: will not. Largest inc to base, other than row 5, ..In fiscal yr 2008, funding for salraies, primarily faculty. Part of appropriation was not biennialized. Budget division gave inc. of 2 million in current biennium. Budget would have been roughly 178 million. 1:28:25 ~ 1/19/2012 9:36:14 AM ~ Esquibel: How much of request for enrollment inc. would go to salaries? 1:28:45 ~ 1/19/2012 9:36:34 AM ~ Rose: Over two fiscal years will provide to them in block grant. Decisions in province of collegesand their trustees. We provide grant, boards determine. 1:29:30 ~ 1/19/2012 9:37:18 AM ~ Esquibel: Consultant's variable costs, please provide. 1:29:51 ~ 1/19/2012 9:37:40 AM ~ Nicholas: 100 series for staff cost, how we calculate health insurance. Provide by college, inc. in salaries. 1:30:21 ~ 1/19/2012 9:38:09 AM ~ Rose: 1:30:31 ~ 1/19/2012 9:38:20 AM ~ Petry: Request for 6 yr history of college benefits and salaries and head counts for staff, one page summary 1:31:03 ~ 1/19/2012 9:38:52 AM ~ Mai: On the thumb drive, we have it. 1:31:23 ~ 1/19/2012 9:39:12 AM ~ Harshman: Last six years, how do variable and fixed costs and state aid Look? Put alongside credit hours and with 5"s 1:31:53 ~ 1/19/2012 9:39:41 AM ~ Berger: Wyoming PBS Ruby. then Capital construction. 10 minute break. Thank you Mat for going through the model. 1:32:24 ~ 1/19/2012 9:40:13 AM ~ 1:32:47 ~ 1/19/2012 10:01:49 AM ~ PBS Ruby Calvert 1:33:08 ~ 1/19/2012 10:02:10 AM ~ Calvert: Handout 159-- Review of past year accomplishments. Allen Simpson production nationally distributed, ready to learn workshops for in home daycare providers, prohibition in Wyoming, in feb will start Capital Outlook and State of the State, PBS media learning and ..exploreer> Online data base for teachers, Coverage area: 48 cable stations, 52 towns, 30,000 household = 60,000 people per week. Prime time 18,000 household, Nielsen avg of 2.5 viewers per household. Bring the state together is goal and mission as well as educational programing. Using our website, 2006 funded one additional positions for a website developer. Click on home navigation page, click on video, see programs available online. Using television differently today. 1:38:52 ~ 1/19/2012 10:07:54 AM ~ Calvert:: pg 71- 77 std budget, 9000 for wyoming public television council, Gov approved std biennial req. Requested a 2% external cost adjustment. Rate increase from Rocky Mountain Power. 85, 000 per year to run equipment. No growth budget since 2009, took 10% budget cut, have no fat in budget. 82% of 1.7 million for salaries, benefits. Smallest staff of public station in country. 15% to fixed, nondiscetionary, 3% supples 1:41:13 ~ 1/19/2012 10:10:15 AM ~ Calvert: 2, 5, 8% budget cuts, hope we do not have to sustain those cuts, understand the situation. Can sustain a 2 %, the 5 or 8 would be very difficult because I would have to cut people, hurts service. Gve figures for those cuts. 1.5 million production endowment, raised 1,032,909 critical to have funds for ongoing endowment. Have until 2016 to raise remainder. Generates 50,000 per year, covers expenses for capital outlook and... 404,000 supplemental request last year is full HD truck Federal funding is included in handout, full disclosure. Will see decline in federal dollars, 8% for FY 13. suspect more for the next 2 years. Critical is future equipment grants, licensed to Wyo Central College, Board of trustees are governing group. Funds no longer available for future equipment needs, developing 3 year plan for equipment, Last real inc. in salaries was 20o8, competitive environment, avg salray is 44,000, not a marektable salary range. will come back next year for critical replacement needs, 1:47:11 ~ 1/19/2012 10:16:13 AM ~ Calvert: Broad band questions yesterday, very aware of that, on National committees studying that. National hubs to save money, efficiencies, infrastructure, looking at broad band. will be very different in 5 to 7 years. Broad band will change distribution. Time of transition. For this year, std budget consideration of no cuts. Thank you 1:48:45 ~ 1/19/2012 10:17:47 AM ~ Nicholas: You do not have a depreciation reserve account for equipment 1:49:03 ~ 1/19/2012 10:18:05 AM ~ 1:49:07 ~ 1/19/2012 10:18:09 AM ~ Nicholas: Dollars for replacement? 1:49:15 ~ 1/19/2012 10:18:17 AM ~ Calvert: Balance sheet, 11 million in Accumulated depreciation, need to do study, can not give you year by year replacement cost, To hub master control so do not have to replace servers, distribution equipment, it will cost less than digital transition, guess a million dollars. 1:50:13 ~ 1/19/2012 10:19:15 AM ~ Nicholas: next request? Go back 10 years, look at all major funding we provided,. Another wayu is to set aside mney every year into a reserve account and you can not spend money, instead of asking for a grant. What are your next big items? Consider what it would cost to set aside an annual amount in a reserve. 1:51:33 ~ 1/19/2012 10:20:35 AM ~ Calvert: To entire committee; since 2001? ok 1:51:49 ~ 1/19/2012 10:20:51 AM ~ 1:52:08 ~ 1/19/2012 10:21:10 AM ~ Calvert: 38 million health ins and retirement is in community college 1:52:59 ~ 1/19/2012 10:22:01 AM ~ Berger: Operational budget closed out, go to Cap Con. 1:53:17 ~ 1/19/2012 10:22:19 AM ~ Rose: Handout, cover letter and spreadsheet. Given to LSO. 1:53:50 ~ 1/19/2012 10:22:52 AM ~ Berger: when 1:53:54 ~ 1/19/2012 10:22:56 AM ~ Rose: Sent an emai lto Bill, provided an electronci form, 1:54:11 ~ 1/19/2012 10:23:13 AM ~ Mai: my directions to agencies, is that electronic is great but if distributed provide paper copies. 1:54:38 ~ 1/19/2012 10:23:40 AM ~ Rose: Capital construction pg 79 of budget . List of 14 projects prioritized and included all requests that the collelges made to the commission, taken through capital construction model. Pg 79 is the start of the process. Governor and policy makers expressed concern about magnitude of 14 projects. Commission introduced aspects into model to weight projects that were of a n instructional nature. Project list voted on and requested. Sent it to Bill. Commission requested you would substitute these six projects. Six projects, of which Governor recommended four. 1:58:05 ~ 1/19/2012 10:27:07 AM ~ Meier: Are those projects within the budget book now? Rodeo complex has instructional value? 1:58:28 ~ 1/19/2012 10:27:30 AM ~ Rose: Comments received, that was reduced with new parameters. shorter list, Casper College AG rodeo complex disappears from the list. Look at 4 projects the governor recommended and look at the two not approved. 1:59:43 ~ 1/19/2012 10:28:45 AM ~ Berger: Distribute the handouts. Go over projects recommended and ones Governor recommended. 2:00:26 ~ 1/19/2012 10:29:28 AM ~ Rose: Prioritization of six projects: Not recommended by governor is priority 1 at LCC< Center for higher education and community learning.and 5, Douglas Outreach Center. Handout 169. Model has 15 factors 2 and 3 recommended by the govenor, one in Riverton and one in Lander. Priority 4 Yellowsone Academic/Workforce Training Building. INcreasing instructional space. Priority 6 Wellness/Athletic/Math/Science facility expansion at WWCC. Adjancency of some functions not compatible. 2:03:55 ~ 1/19/2012 10:32:57 AM ~ Nicholas: Go back and look at original list, with arenas. Example given. If you had a quiver of projects and priorities were arenas and folks thought that was legitimate but others put less high priority projects at end of list but they got booted to the top. Were the colleges caught flat footed. 2:05:36 ~ 1/19/2012 10:34:38 AM ~ Rose: Use and functionality of space, Casper College has a high usage of their spaces, ancillary use. Indicates need for additional capacity. First cut did not reflect functional purpose. Second time inserted instructional use, National set of criteria of 10 classifications of space, highest hierarchy is classes, then labs. Arena are at 5 or 600 level. Use it as a ranking methodoly and redid priority list. CC developed thjeir own master plan and forwarded projects based on their list. Still a fundamental question of discerning between judgment of Board of TRustees and the state saying that is not in the state's interest. Not perfected. 2:08:51 ~ 1/19/2012 10:37:53 AM ~ Nicholas: Community colleges built own facilites originally. Becomes committment to assist but becomes statewide assessment. UW has no way to raise money except at state resources. Mixing concepts of needed facilites and state will build, versus only supplementing when we have money. state needs. Not clear about CC commission role, colleges role, prioritize on local vs. state need. 2:11:11 ~ 1/19/2012 10:40:13 AM ~ Rose: Our assumption initially reflect master plans college put forward. Appropriate to refine model on state interest. Delivery of instruction is primary thing colleges do. Role of state in CC bldgs is ambiguous, have not nailed down states interest. What is state's role in consulting facilities? Does an arena reflect that as much as an instructional facility? Multitude of opinions of where state should be involved. Clarify appreciated. 2:13:51 ~ 1/19/2012 10:42:53 AM ~ Nicholas: State's point of view, interest in all community colleges, look at 10 year needs, workforce development and constituents, then capacity to meet obligations locally, then see what the void is. Flip side, tee projects based on capacity to make contributions, know which counties will win race every time. ....wWho has the resources, who is ramped up, who is shovel ready? 2:15:20 ~ 1/19/2012 10:44:22 AM ~ Rose: Determine capacity to raise local money. Goshen much lower than Sweetwater. Sweetwater have capped local contribution at 50%. Assessment. No idea of magnitude of states funding of capital construction, do not know committment or level. May be problem in way we structured. Initially said it was instruction. 2:17:33 ~ 1/19/2012 10:46:35 AM ~ Nicholas: Lander Riverton; Example. Would like 3 million, if local legislative leaders given choice of block grant local govt formula or we decide. do not know what Lander folks would say. I do not see a needs assessment, 2:19:07 ~ 1/19/2012 10:48:09 AM ~ Rose: Have done an inventory. Model reflects difference in colleges for use, sq ft per student, etc. Very large document can provide it. You suggested another approach. If desire to keep at local control level, will give it up in heartbeat. Complex trying to do systemically. 21 18 225 Law says I have to do this. your proposal to take it out of this and allocate to local districts, you can do it. 2:20:58 ~ 1/19/2012 10:50:00 AM ~ Nicholas: If you had known that arenas were not going to go over well with us and Governor and told instituitons that, would you have th same list? 2:21:43 ~ 1/19/2012 10:50:45 AM ~ Rose: Closer to what we have know? 2:21:50 ~ 1/19/2012 10:50:52 AM ~ Nicholas: What if CWC used all their money to build arena and then left his for us to pay? 2:22:09 ~ 1/19/2012 10:51:11 AM ~ Rose: Construction management has to manage these projects. 2:22:25 ~ 1/19/2012 10:51:27 AM ~ Nicholas: Suppose Casper had local of 5 million and put it into constructional then came to us for arena. Suppose Gillette had 5 million local and put into arenas, came to us with instructional need. Do we know if that type of selectively is happening. 2:23:23 ~ 1/19/2012 10:52:25 AM ~ Rose: Think the model is designedto do that, as instructional is state interest and an arena is local. If local board does that, needs to know what type facility the state will fudn. Build classroom then ask for arena, not likely to be supported. 2:24:11 ~ 1/19/2012 10:53:13 AM ~ Nicholas: System, do not know how much state allocation but know it will go to instructional, so put money into lower priority and leave high priority for us 2:24:42 ~ 1/19/2012 10:53:44 AM ~ Rose: Correct 2:24:47 ~ 1/19/2012 10:53:48 AM ~ Berger: CC should not depend on us for funding, Local resources with matching funds varies county to county. Constituents offer up 5 million, want it matched by the state. How to put into formulat to make it relevant? 2:25:50 ~ 1/19/2012 10:54:52 AM ~ Rose: Quandry faced. Dilema We have to figure what projects should be funded 2:27:55 ~ 1/19/2012 10:56:57 AM ~ Berger: We see that at the University of Wyoming. When some donates a large amount of money for a building, is it a priorityk for the universityk 2:28:54 ~ 1/19/2012 10:57:56 AM ~ Meier: Mill levyi at the local level---is there a cap? Characteristics 2:30:24 ~ 1/19/2012 10:59:26 AM ~ Rose: We haven't been able to see what the future landscape looks like. We need to get that from the colleges. The way a system looks at needs is different than the way an individual college looks at it. Complicated. Difficult to look at colleges' needs. It needs to be a five year plan. What does it look like? We could then look at the projects 2:33:25 ~ 1/19/2012 11:02:27 AM ~ Berger: Questions 2:33:38 ~ 1/19/2012 11:02:40 AM ~ Peterson: Trustees from a college have a priorty list. Community colleges have different needs and they may not be on the same page We need to come up with a formula to do projects If a college knows that they will have a peroject every 4 years or... Trust the Trustee to look at the prioties and let them judge. 2:37:12 ~ 1/19/2012 11:06:14 AM ~ Rose: Needs will arise which were't even on the list but the project needs to be done. Local involvement is important. Maybe they need two lists. 2:38:51 ~ 1/19/2012 11:07:53 AM ~ Nicholas: Looking over this list. After the major project drops off then they go to the fourth item....We'll pay higher % for ..... We lowered your major maintance and... 2:41:13 ~ 1/19/2012 11:10:15 AM ~ Rose: Deferred maintance can cause a bigger problem. If we ignore that for capitol construction.... 2:42:20 ~ 1/19/2012 11:11:22 AM ~ Rose: We can't use that on capitol construction 2:42:58 ~ 1/19/2012 11:12:00 AM ~ 2:43:14 ~ 1/19/2012 11:12:16 AM ~ Nicholas: Do we have a spread sheet that shows .. Does Bill have that? 2:44:15 ~ 1/19/2012 11:13:17 AM ~ Rose: We don't have access to all those funds you added up. 2:44:48 ~ 1/19/2012 11:13:50 AM ~ Mai: Handout #169 doesn't line up with what is in the book.Until we get a letter from the Gov.. 2:45:45 ~ 1/19/2012 11:14:47 AM ~ Nicholas: We go by our book until we hear from the Gov 2:46:11 ~ 1/19/2012 11:15:13 AM ~ Rose: Discrepency between what went into the budget book 2:46:47 ~ 1/19/2012 11:15:49 AM ~ Nicholas: Dok we have a spread that shows ..... 2:47:31 ~ 1/19/2012 11:16:33 AM ~ Rose: you should have received the sheet that show correction 2:48:13 ~ 1/19/2012 11:17:15 AM ~ Nicholas What are the recommendations from the Govenor? 2:48:36 ~ 1/19/2012 11:17:38 AM ~ Mai: Clarification. We have NOT received a letter from the Gov We aren't going to be voting on these sheets Gov talley .... 2:49:54 ~ 1/19/2012 11:18:56 AM ~ Jensen: I have seen the Gov's draft letter and that is what these sheets are based on. 2:50:43 ~ 1/19/2012 11:19:45 AM ~ Mai: What Jill saw was not ... 2:51:38 ~ 1/19/2012 11:20:40 AM ~ Meier: If we receive the money we asked for from the Gov, what would.. 2:52:46 ~ 1/19/2012 11:21:48 AM ~ Rose: I can't answer that because the colleges... 2:53:07 ~ 1/19/2012 11:22:09 AM ~ Nicholas: The last bi it was 1.5 2:53:40 ~ 1/19/2012 11:22:42 AM ~ Nicholas: In each time did we ever over provide for major maintainace 2:54:22 ~ 1/19/2012 11:23:24 AM ~ Rose: We receive relative needs and... Colleges have permission to spend 1% of.. Appropriation of funds from legislatures... 2:56:24 ~ 1/19/2012 11:25:26 AM ~ Meier: What percent of 2:56:54 ~ 1/19/2012 11:25:56 AM ~ Petry: We used the same formula 2:57:29 ~ 1/19/2012 11:26:31 AM ~ Meier: 17 million and 2:57:47 ~ 1/19/2012 11:26:49 AM ~ Petry: It was a one time stimulus money 2:58:06 ~ 1/19/2012 11:27:08 AM ~ Nicholas: When they got the funding (UW) they used theirs for labs, new construction..... Didn't use it for deferred maintainace 2:59:14 ~ 1/19/2012 11:28:16 AM ~ Rose Restrictions were placed on what you could do. Had to be used on instructional ... 3:00:31 ~ 1/19/2012 11:29:33 AM ~ Berger percent used on 3:00:44 ~ 1/19/2012 11:29:46 AM ~ Mai:: Reading the use of the funds $17 million went to colleges. 2010 session laws Paragrpah B. approx 27 million to UW while approx 17 million to Community Colleges. Their amount was not the 60/40%/. 3:02:01 ~ 1/19/2012 11:31:03 AM ~ Rose: We got $!& million of the $44 million------------------------------------------- 3:03:24 ~ 1/19/2012 11:32:26 AM ~ Mai Column 7 Says section 2 appropriation Not on this document 3:04:02 ~ 1/19/2012 11:33:04 AM ~ Nicholas Item by item Wellness, 10 was already taken out 3:04:29 ~ 1/19/2012 11:33:31 AM ~ Mai Anything in Column 1 of 7000 or above is a cap con item 3:05:03 ~ 1/19/2012 11:34:05 AM ~ Nicholas I hear what you are saying because they are all zeroing out 3:05:34 ~ 1/19/2012 11:34:36 AM ~ Pederson The gov added 387486 doesn't that correspond to what the gov is taking out. I don't 3:06:22 ~ 1/19/2012 11:35:24 AM ~ Nicholas 3:06:31 ~ 1/19/2012 11:35:33 AM ~ Pederson Right 3:06:39 ~ 1/19/2012 11:35:41 AM ~ Jill That is correct because we only had 7 columns' we didn't have room for an eighth. 3:07:16 ~ 1/19/2012 11:36:18 AM ~ Nicholas The gov is going to reccommend for 5 items. 3:07:44 ~ 1/19/2012 11:36:46 AM ~ Rose One of those 5 projects is not requesting state funding. I think there is a authorization for that project. 3:08:31 ~ 1/19/2012 11:37:33 AM ~ Mai Your column 8 is what Jim provided Except for 1 & 5. 3:09:43 ~ 1/19/2012 11:38:45 AM ~ Rose It's the It's not any state funds 3:10:03 ~ 1/19/2012 11:39:04 AM ~ Berger This is just to clear that up 3:10:43 ~ 1/19/2012 11:39:45 AM ~ Rose We used the term authorize 3:11:02 ~ 1/19/2012 11:40:04 AM ~ Berger Thank for you for your presentation. 5 minute break 3:11:46 ~ 1/19/2012 12:02:41 PM ~ 3:11:52 ~ 1/19/2012 12:02:47 PM ~ Nelson The education is charge to functions of the model and bring to your recommendations for the external cost estimate. They had not decided where they were with the regional costs adjustments. The did recommend no external cost adjustments 3:13:45 ~ 1/19/2012 12:04:40 PM ~ Matt It is an analysis of where they were in October and where they are after yesterdays meeting. In Oct. they decided to only adjust Yesterday they amended legislation to adopt the Hedonic Index. To lessen the impact, they are going to phase it in over a 4 year period. The last four columns show the phase in process. 3:16:21 ~ 1/19/2012 12:07:16 PM ~ Von Flatern Why use the lo..? 3:16:50 ~ 1/19/2012 12:07:45 PM ~ Von Flatern Where did the base line of 100 come in? 3:17:44 ~ 1/19/2012 12:08:39 PM ~ Man The Wyoming cost of living index...... Wyoming is unique that we use a cost of living index at all. 3:18:31 ~ 1/19/2012 12:09:26 PM ~ Von Flatern How did they create this Hedonic model. It never seemed to fit all districts. If you advantage one and handicap others that that is taken care of in the committee. If we did use a Wyoming index It is by far 3:20:24 ~ 1/19/2012 12:11:19 PM ~ Nicholas I need staff to give me some refresher into. Teacher in buying a house in Laramie will pay 25% more than in Cheyenne. 3:21:37 ~ 1/19/2012 12:12:32 PM ~ Man The current Hedonic index does indicate it pays more 3:22:15 ~ 1/19/2012 12:13:10 PM ~ Nicholas Lets start with the WCLI Does it increase and decrease 3:22:59 ~ 1/19/2012 12:13:54 PM ~ Matt The Hedonci wage index is ...... model decision is the greater of the two. 3:23:36 ~ 1/19/2012 12:14:31 PM ~ Nicholas: The mechanics of the WCLI which would only go up, is that right 3:24:29 ~ 1/19/2012 12:15:24 PM ~ Nelson The base of 100 prevents the districts from going down. They did have a value of 101, it goes down by .1 3:25:16 ~ 1/19/2012 12:16:11 PM ~ Nicholas The WCLI every one goes the same percentage Each county has their own index. If only you had was the WCLI, there is no housing index in that. The Hedonic 3:26:57 ~ 1/19/2012 12:17:52 PM ~ Nelson It's a huge regression analysis. It takes a large numer of data points. The real difference is Hedonic uses a richer set of data points. 3:28:20 ~ 1/19/2012 12:19:15 PM ~ Nicholas What would be the driver that dirves Washakie County and .................... togethere It would drive together some costs 3:29:48 ~ 1/19/2012 12:20:43 PM ~ Nelson That is the regional costs adjustment 3:30:09 ~ 1/19/2012 12:21:04 PM ~ Nicholas That is what goes into the model. That is what ultimately the model will show. 3:30:52 ~ 1/19/2012 12:21:47 PM ~ Nelson We are just making a change in policy 3:31:10 ~ 1/19/2012 12:22:05 PM ~ Representative Its' the difference between what the district 3:31:47 ~ 1/19/2012 12:22:42 PM ~ Nicholas The column is 3:32:05 ~ 1/19/2012 12:23:00 PM ~ Matt The column labeled Model RCA The current model RCA...... so they get a base of 100 3:33:09 ~ 1/19/2012 12:24:04 PM ~ Nicholas What is If the resulting difference shows........ Then you went to the next column, it you fell belwo1 so they get held harmless. 3:34:26 ~ 1/19/2012 12:25:21 PM ~ Matt They are getting held harmless regaurdlessly. 3:34:52 ~ 1/19/2012 12:25:47 PM ~ Matt That is correct 3:35:11 ~ 1/19/2012 12:26:06 PM ~ NIcholas Lets take Albany Big Horn fell below, Teton of 1.33 So a district How do you articulate that difference 3:36:32 ~ 1/19/2012 12:27:27 PM ~ Nelson I think I don't want to take words out of Even if it didn't take care of everybody, it was better that going back. 3:37:38 ~ 1/19/2012 12:28:32 PM ~ Nicholas If you are harmed on one side, you get pulled up, If you get harmed on the other side, nothering happens 3:38:29 ~ 1/19/2012 12:29:24 PM ~ Cheaters: 3:38:58 ~ 1/19/2012 12:29:53 PM ~ ODonald The difference was based on court cases. Salaries might be Touch of confusion The school districts are being held on histrocial levels, not the 1.0 base Hopefully that cleared it up 3:41:03 ~ 1/19/2012 12:31:58 PM ~ Nicholas You apply to the current model and compare it to the Hedonic Wage Index. We are going to graduate you from one index to the other. 3:42:03 ~ 1/19/2012 12:32:58 PM ~ Harshman. I think housing is weighted part of it 3:42:38 ~ 1/19/2012 12:33:33 PM ~ O'Donald Housin g is a part of the index. THe are derived by stastical analysis to determine if they are meaningful 3:43:54 ~ 1/19/2012 12:34:48 PM ~ Steward Back to the teton example by virture of the 1.1 Teton will bet a bump. Is that close to what they will be getting. 3:45:03 ~ 1/19/2012 12:35:58 PM ~ O'Donald 3:45:14 ~ 1/19/2012 12:36:09 PM ~ Stewart What is that amount 3:45:36 ~ 1/19/2012 12:36:31 PM ~ Harshman Kind of goes back to those factors 3:46:03 ~ 1/19/2012 12:36:58 PM ~ Matt we can run off a list of those factors 3:46:18 ~ 1/19/2012 12:37:13 PM ~ Harshman As you read that there was not an adjusmtment I'm glad to see that the number will never less than 1.0 increase. 3:47:35 ~ 1/19/2012 12:38:30 PM ~ Matt Education experience grows every year 3:48:05 ~ 1/19/2012 12:39:00 PM ~ Matt We are actually going to try to do that in house 3:48:27 ~ 1/19/2012 12:39:22 PM ~ Nicholas The 3rd column We are going to use a base of 100, The second Hedonci Wage index When you lept forward What does the floor of 1.0 mean 3:49:49 ~ 1/19/2012 12:40:43 PM ~ Nelson Statewide service costs 3:50:15 ~ 1/19/2012 12:41:10 PM ~ Nicholas We get 3 different indexes Then our consultants say that ...and JAC said lets apply a cost based analysis Now the committte says phase in, I say phase out. We are going to phase you off 3:52:14 ~ 1/19/2012 12:43:09 PM ~ Nelson One exception we would maintain that base of 100. 3:52:42 ~ 1/19/2012 12:43:37 PM ~ Nicholas It is less than the more generous model 3:53:14 ~ 1/19/2012 12:44:08 PM ~ Cheaters Something a little more reasonable 3:53:36 ~ 1/19/2012 12:44:31 PM ~ Nicholas If you are trying to do what is equatable, The consultant said. But people would only benefit. Then we have that 3 or 4 years weaning off period. 3:55:24 ~ 1/19/2012 12:46:19 PM ~ Harshman History The cost based model My question where does history begin and end. 3:56:17 ~ 1/19/2012 12:47:12 PM ~ O'Donnel Things have evolved so much The surpreme court took that and decided that .... because of those findings and a more complex 3:57:31 ~ 1/19/2012 12:48:26 PM ~ Harshman The cost based model Is it the 3:57:48 ~ 1/19/2012 12:48:43 PM ~ O'Donnel It is the consultant's model 3:58:10 ~ 1/19/2012 12:49:05 PM ~ Harshman If we create a model, that becomes the average cost 3:58:46 ~ 1/19/2012 12:49:41 PM ~ O'Donell So if we end up with less income next year I haven't read it 3:59:44 ~ 1/19/2012 12:50:39 PM ~ Harshman It's an issue to build upon 4:00:08 ~ 1/19/2012 12:51:03 PM ~ Nelson: We adopted .......... so that is the law 4:00:47 ~ 1/19/2012 12:51:42 PM ~ Nicholas As a practical matter we know districts can spend into those saleries. We are going to stop those salaries today. Local policy decissions will spend all that money. I guess as I understand they adopted four premisis to get wher they are. The first, the second is, the next step is an entitlment and finally what Representative Harshman ........... That is what you said and that is what want implimented 4:04:32 ~ 1/19/2012 12:55:27 PM ~ Steward I'm looking at a handout miles from Yellowstone, does the cost of living the closer get closer 4:05:19 ~ 1/19/2012 12:56:14 PM ~ O'Donnel That figure is derived is distance from larger urban areas. The impact it has a somewhat depressing. 4:06:39 ~ 1/19/2012 12:57:34 PM ~ Von Flatern When was the last court case heard 4:07:06 ~ 1/19/2012 12:58:01 PM ~ O'Donnel. It preseded the old Matt model, 4:07:33 ~ 1/19/2012 12:58:28 PM ~ Von Flatern Does is 4:07:51 ~ 1/19/2012 12:58:46 PM ~ O'Donnel I believe it was 4:08:12 ~ 1/19/2012 12:59:07 PM ~ O'Donnell: 4:09:45 ~ 1/19/2012 1:00:40 PM ~ Harshman: did comment on that 1.0 O"donnall:The court did exam the notion of the statewide avg in the courtwide campebell. 4:10:55 ~ 1/19/2012 1:01:50 PM ~ Harshman: At state wide attorney, are you comfortable with moving forward with this? 4:11:15 ~ 1/19/2012 1:02:10 PM ~ O'Donnell: Wyoming cost of living is inaccurate index of regional cost of living. Hedonic index is more accurate. I would go to court to defend that. Only evidence I have now. 4:11:50 ~ 1/19/2012 1:02:45 PM ~ Nicholas: Rationale applied: Who benefits from the 1 floor. Other than Evanston, every community that benefits, someone who when looking at 2005 index , the WCLI and Hedonic wage index fall below 1,. ...Lyman, Newcastle, Upton. Give them the floor, they do not have th pahse in. Premise that 2011 Hedonic index those communities would have lost sig. amount and they are smal districts. Methodology adopted is advantageous to small districts. Minimum 100 creates a clear pattern, gives me concern. 4:14:26 ~ 1/19/2012 1:05:21 PM ~ O'Donnall: Echo testimony before committee. The floor of 100 creates inequities that are troubling. 4:14:56 ~ 1/19/2012 1:05:51 PM ~ Nicholas: Testimony was that it is hardship for whoever does not get what they did under the 2005 formula. Weaning off of old model. Are you saying it is more of a harship for campbell county to wean off than...? 4:15:54 ~ 1/19/2012 1:06:49 PM ~ O'Donnell: I am not saying that. The committee created an index.....independent of cost. 4:16:21 ~ 1/19/2012 1:07:16 PM ~ Nicholas: Pattern benefitting small districts. Big districts absorb loss, small districts being held harmless. Do you agree that the pattern has emerged out of the compromise? 4:17:02 ~ 1/19/2012 1:07:57 PM ~ O"Donnell: Yes 4:17:10 ~ 1/19/2012 1:08:05 PM ~ Teeters: Need to argue if it is sound. Problem with designing the instrument then look at that. If facts bear out that Hedonic index benefits small districts because they are cheaper areas to live, can not deny that. Correlation does not mean instrument is flawed. 4:17:56 ~ 1/19/2012 1:08:50 PM ~ Nicholas: My constituents. If small districts believed 2005 index was unfair to them, then why wouldn't large districts say that for this index? So ...small districts do not like consultants rec so cut us a break, large districts have to live with it. Pattern emerge gives me concern. 4:19:35 ~ 1/19/2012 1:10:30 PM ~ Teeter: My recommendation was pure hedonic, which was a political nightmare, response. 4:20:10 ~ 1/19/2012 1:11:05 PM ~ Nicholas: Identify to the floor, pattern identified, understand it, live with it. 4:20:29 ~ 1/19/2012 1:11:24 PM ~ Meier: Discussions in Casper, might have to do this with small districts, competiveness of offering same slary structure as larger districts do. Not a level playing field in the base. Someone out of college, offered .....End up with those schools get good qualified teachers but not as highly qualified as the districts that can pay higher wages. Good to have a floor, levels out some, but not far enough to offer same level of salary. Level of teachers hired at schools without crtical amount of money to offer top salaries. 4:22:33 ~ 1/19/2012 1:13:28 PM ~ Berger: Have to vote on ECA. 4:23:18 ~ 1/19/2012 1:14:13 PM ~ Nicholas: This is a report of action taken by JAC, still have the ECA decision to make, took public comment a month ago. Up to chair. 4:23:49 ~ 1/19/2012 1:14:43 PM ~ Harshman: Was senators question on RCA or ECA? 4:24:13 ~ 1/19/2012 1:15:08 PM ~ Nicholas: Have not voted on ECA. Let's refresh then vote, has to build into budget. 4:24:40 ~ 1/19/2012 1:15:35 PM ~ Harshman: This committee will not make any recommendation on RCA. 4:24:55 ~ 1/19/2012 1:15:50 PM ~ Nicholas: Correct 4:25:04 ~ 1/19/2012 1:15:59 PM ~ Berger: Back at 2 o'clock with ECA, then FCC. Will end the day at 4 o'clock. 4:25:27 ~ 1/19/2012 1:16:22 PM ~ 4:25:36 ~ 1/19/2012 1:17:12 PM ~